A_n_g_e_l_a
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Festol TS55 Or Good Circular Saw and Guide Rail
- Thread starter jedmc571
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
surely this is only down to the saw? You can cut all these free hand without your guide system if you wanted.
Also, i wouldn't want to try and cut 6mm steel plate. Tell me if i'm wrong but thats not using woodworking tools?
another also, do you need the additional "smart repeaters" at £240 to cut the 3mm strips?
Good Surname or what ?
Established Member
Angela,
You seem to be spoiling for a fight and purport to know so much about the import/resale business. :wink:
It's very easy to do a straight dollar/sterling comparison and think you're being ripped-off. I know nothing of Pewe or his business but believe if you work it through you'll be surprised what you need to charge to make a living.
While I don't think Axminster/Classic Handtools are ripping me off, I do know that I can buy more cheaply in the US and import myself. So that's what I do with any US manufactured tools (LN for instance).
So here's my friendly challenge - "publish YOUR business model for setting up to import the EZ Guide - and let us critique it". :twisted:
You seem to be spoiling for a fight and purport to know so much about the import/resale business. :wink:
It's very easy to do a straight dollar/sterling comparison and think you're being ripped-off. I know nothing of Pewe or his business but believe if you work it through you'll be surprised what you need to charge to make a living.
While I don't think Axminster/Classic Handtools are ripping me off, I do know that I can buy more cheaply in the US and import myself. So that's what I do with any US manufactured tools (LN for instance).
So here's my friendly challenge - "publish YOUR business model for setting up to import the EZ Guide - and let us critique it". :twisted:
Colin C
Established Member
Come on now people, slow down :shock: .
I have the system but you dont need a £120 saw to good edges ( may not be as good as Festool ), look here
for some that has got good cuts with a cheaper saw.
Does Festool do any better?
I am not saying that the Festool is rubbish but it does seem like it is being said about the EZ, plus I had a look at Byron Black's post when he was look at the two systems, he got a price for the two.
If there are questions, by all means ask but can we stop the witch hunt. :roll:
I have the system but you dont need a £120 saw to good edges ( may not be as good as Festool ), look here
for some that has got good cuts with a cheaper saw.
Does Festool do any better?
I am not saying that the Festool is rubbish but it does seem like it is being said about the EZ, plus I had a look at Byron Black's post when he was look at the two systems, he got a price for the two.
If there are questions, by all means ask but can we stop the witch hunt. :roll:
PowerTool
Established Member
Colin C":c4frjcor said:
Quite agree - whilst I am all in favour of different opinions (if we all thought the same,we would never learn),I am not in favour of arguments.
Lets try and be constructive,please [-o< and not spoil what started off as a useful thread.
Andrew
I agree - too much of this phenomena appears on US forums. I would like to think that members of UK forums are more mature.
True, but I personally found it much easier, quicker and the resultant quality of cut much better using a guide rail system with ant-chip contol.
The Steel I cut was for the creation of a strenthener for a woodworking project. It required a long steel re-inforcement of a particular length which was also tapered.
Not a regular requirement, I agree, and normally I would have had to sub-contract the work but found I could do it easily with my Evolution (£99 worth) saw and the guide rail system.
This can be done in other ways - using workshop made jigs for example - but in the long run the time saved using the repeaters can more than justify the cost depending on the amount and frequency of the work.
Mod_Edit This comment was posted by a retailer who sells this product in the UK.
Steve Maskery
Established Member
I agree, let's keep this constructive.
I think that probably any of these systems do what the manufacturers claim - they cut wood (and probably other material, too) reasonably accurately, reasonably cleanly and reasonably quickly. In the end it probably comes down to personal preference and one's own experience. I own the Festool, but I also have a Mafell BJ and it is superb, so I'd very happily investigate the Mafell saw. I don't have any experience of the EZ.
As to rip-off. I've looked into importing. It's scary. Sure, as an individual you can import via surface mail, get lucky on the VAT/Excise front, and bag a bargain. That is a VERY different proposition from doing it commercially and making a living. Importers are not charities, and you have to sell a helluva lot to make even National Average income, let alone what one might expect from a business where one might have to put up one's house as collateral against a loan for the business. If it were that easy we'd all be doing it.
I know the Festool is good. I have no difficulty believing the Mafell is good. For all I know the EZ may well be better than either. But I suspect that no one-man band is getting rich by ripping anyone off. Pewe will either succeed because he is offering a superior product at a premium price, or fail because his price is not reflected in the quality of the product (assuming in both cases that there is nothing wrong in his business management).
Whichever is the case, let's not confuse retail bargain-hunting with a sound business model. It's not the same.
I think that probably any of these systems do what the manufacturers claim - they cut wood (and probably other material, too) reasonably accurately, reasonably cleanly and reasonably quickly. In the end it probably comes down to personal preference and one's own experience. I own the Festool, but I also have a Mafell BJ and it is superb, so I'd very happily investigate the Mafell saw. I don't have any experience of the EZ.
As to rip-off. I've looked into importing. It's scary. Sure, as an individual you can import via surface mail, get lucky on the VAT/Excise front, and bag a bargain. That is a VERY different proposition from doing it commercially and making a living. Importers are not charities, and you have to sell a helluva lot to make even National Average income, let alone what one might expect from a business where one might have to put up one's house as collateral against a loan for the business. If it were that easy we'd all be doing it.
I know the Festool is good. I have no difficulty believing the Mafell is good. For all I know the EZ may well be better than either. But I suspect that no one-man band is getting rich by ripping anyone off. Pewe will either succeed because he is offering a superior product at a premium price, or fail because his price is not reflected in the quality of the product (assuming in both cases that there is nothing wrong in his business management).
Whichever is the case, let's not confuse retail bargain-hunting with a sound business model. It's not the same.
Good Lord !
Well I have opened a can of worms, I'm more confused now than ever.
I can appreciate both owners comments, and I guess It would be nice to check both tools for comparison, obviously I can't because the EZ isn't available in tool shops.
I am going to have a bash at the Festool next week hopefully, and I at least have some experience of it.
So now my next challenge ! where's the cheapest UK supplier ?
Jed
Well I have opened a can of worms, I'm more confused now than ever.
I can appreciate both owners comments, and I guess It would be nice to check both tools for comparison, obviously I can't because the EZ isn't available in tool shops.
I am going to have a bash at the Festool next week hopefully, and I at least have some experience of it.
So now my next challenge ! where's the cheapest UK supplier ?
Jed
Colin C
Established Member
pewe":1j5q8zr1 said:
I was going to say the same
engineer one
Established Member
the interesting thing about the way this thread has gotten a little off beam is because there are many ways to do the job. each will have their fans, and the others will rubbish them.
i have seen colin's ezee thinga ma jig, and it looks good, but i do feel it depends upon the saw.
the festo saw will last for a lot of lifetimes(in general, there's always a rogue )
my mafell works well too, but it offers different advantages, and you could always go for the motor driven mafell, now that's is really the dogs whatsits.
importing at the beginning of any business model is both a risk, and an unknown. it matters not what you think when doing a one off, stocking things, and then waiting to re-stock when you have underestimated is a bummer, and causes more problems with customer relations than you can imagine.
doing a straight dollar/pound conversion is simple, but often does not allow you to make a reasonable profit, and remember the revenue/customs and excise have eyes and ears everywhere, and whilst you may well get one through, a quantity will get you caught, and they will demand back money plus penalties. more importantly with the revenue, if you are in business, they will demand you prove yourself innocent, they do not have to prove you guilty.
what most people misunderstand about importing as a business is the amount of time your money is tied up before you even see the goods,
typically 90 days, and then you have to be lucky that the seller does not screw you. you need insurance to cover your back side. next, you need a clearing agent, and i agree not dhl etc, but that's a different story, then you need transport, and storage, all of which you have to pay for.
next you have to re box it, and then send it off to the uk customer, either by courier or by post,all adds up.
if you don't make 15% on your money at the get go, you are losing money, and with the dollar as it is now, the exchange rate swing over the 90 day period is scary too.
anyway back to the selling point, with festo or mafell the prices are basically similar from the resellers, so look for service too.
again try the guys at jaycee tools in northolt, middx
02088411099, talk to andrew, or check out their web site at festo fanatics.
sorry for the plug, but he did ask for an address :lol: :lol:
paul :lol:
oh yes, alf you are right, but is there a better way to cut :?
i have seen colin's ezee thinga ma jig, and it looks good, but i do feel it depends upon the saw.
the festo saw will last for a lot of lifetimes(in general, there's always a rogue
)my mafell works well too, but it offers different advantages, and you could always go for the motor driven mafell, now that's is really the dogs whatsits.
importing at the beginning of any business model is both a risk, and an unknown. it matters not what you think when doing a one off, stocking things, and then waiting to re-stock when you have underestimated is a bummer, and causes more problems with customer relations than you can imagine.
doing a straight dollar/pound conversion is simple, but often does not allow you to make a reasonable profit, and remember the revenue/customs and excise have eyes and ears everywhere, and whilst you may well get one through, a quantity will get you caught, and they will demand back money plus penalties. more importantly with the revenue, if you are in business, they will demand you prove yourself innocent, they do not have to prove you guilty.
what most people misunderstand about importing as a business is the amount of time your money is tied up before you even see the goods,
typically 90 days, and then you have to be lucky that the seller does not screw you. you need insurance to cover your back side. next, you need a clearing agent, and i agree not dhl etc, but that's a different story, then you need transport, and storage, all of which you have to pay for.
next you have to re box it, and then send it off to the uk customer, either by courier or by post,all adds up.
if you don't make 15% on your money at the get go, you are losing money, and with the dollar as it is now, the exchange rate swing over the 90 day period is scary too.
anyway back to the selling point, with festo or mafell the prices are basically similar from the resellers, so look for service too.
again try the guys at jaycee tools in northolt, middx
02088411099, talk to andrew, or check out their web site at festo fanatics.
sorry for the plug, but he did ask for an address :lol: :lol:
paul :lol:
oh yes, alf you are right, but is there a better way to cut :?
Engineer One (interesting nickname )
Your comments about importing are all very valid.
I have imported one offs in the past as a private individual, and this is perfectly OK and can save some money - until it goes wrong and the cost of shipping back to the manufacturer negates any saving and can end up costing over the odds.
i don't necessarily agree fully here. I am not arguing your point of view, just relating my opinion based on tests, and the comments I have had from others who have bought the EZ system (direct from the US).
Yes a more expensive saw (in theory) should last longer, but for quality of cut I have tested a £39 B&Q performace and found that using the guide rail, providing the saw is aligned properly, it gives the same quality of cut as the Hitachi and Makita top of the range, and also the Hilti (which in the US is regarded as one of the best saws).
In all test cases I used the same 40 tooth blade for cross and rip cuts, and which cost less than £10 retail. There is no breakout and no saw marks on the cut edge.
I now almost exclusively use the Evolution Rage with its standard 20 tooth blade, and the cut quality and dust control are excellent.
Mod_Edit This comment was posted by a retailer who sells/assists sales of EZ in the UK.
)Your comments about importing are all very valid.
I have imported one offs in the past as a private individual, and this is perfectly OK and can save some money - until it goes wrong and the cost of shipping back to the manufacturer negates any saving and can end up costing over the odds.
i don't necessarily agree fully here. I am not arguing your point of view, just relating my opinion based on tests, and the comments I have had from others who have bought the EZ system (direct from the US).
Yes a more expensive saw (in theory) should last longer, but for quality of cut I have tested a £39 B&Q performace and found that using the guide rail, providing the saw is aligned properly, it gives the same quality of cut as the Hitachi and Makita top of the range, and also the Hilti (which in the US is regarded as one of the best saws).
In all test cases I used the same 40 tooth blade for cross and rip cuts, and which cost less than £10 retail. There is no breakout and no saw marks on the cut edge.
I now almost exclusively use the Evolution Rage with its standard 20 tooth blade, and the cut quality and dust control are excellent.
Mod_Edit This comment was posted by a retailer who sells/assists sales of EZ in the UK.
engineer one
Established Member
as for te name, pewe i just happened to be the first one with that big an ego :lol:
you mention that if the saw is aligned properly, then the cheaper ones are
ok. but we come back to the same thing having to modify a tool that should work from the get go.
we all know that a decent blade in any saw is half the battle, so we seem to be working in the same general direction :twisted:
i just wish you luck fighting the fickle british public that wants the best
for sod all :twisted: :roll:
paul :wink:
you mention that if the saw is aligned properly, then the cheaper ones are
ok. but we come back to the same thing having to modify a tool that should work from the get go.
we all know that a decent blade in any saw is half the battle, so we seem to be working in the same general direction :twisted:
i just wish you luck fighting the fickle british public that wants the best
for sod all :twisted: :roll:
paul :wink:
What I mean by 'aligned properly' is a simple process.
Because the user mounts their own saw on the baseplate that runs on the track they just have to ensure that the saw is fixed to the baseplate with the blade parallel to the track. If the user can see
and has a steel rule they should find it quite easy.Mod_Edit This comment was posted by a retailer who sells/assists sales of EZ in the UK.
Colin C
Established Member
pewe":gk5pbrd3 said:
What I mean by 'aligned properly' is a simple process.
If the user can see
I manage it :roll: :shock:
engineer one
Established Member
that' waht i mean :twisted: :roll:
paul :wink:
paul :wink:
RogerS
Established Member
I use and like the Festool system but do not have any experience of the other systems to comment. It does what it says on the tin. Joining the two guides together doesn't seem too difficult in achieving a straight line. I find that the rubber strips keeps the guide rail solidly fixed in place while you cut..even on slippery MFC..so no need for clamps. The angle attachment (for cutting lines square/parallel) is not good. I end up using a square to line the guide rail to rather than the festool angle attachment. I also have various gizmos for using the rail with routers etc. I also have a Festool multi-function table that doubles as a router table but also allows me to use all the festool goodies in other ways.
But for me the real star is the actual TS55 saw. The plunge action is superb. The simplicity of blade changing is excellent. It cuts cleanly with minimal chipout even on finnicky material such as MFC (using the right blade).
But for me the real star is the actual TS55 saw. The plunge action is superb. The simplicity of blade changing is excellent. It cuts cleanly with minimal chipout even on finnicky material such as MFC (using the right blade).
andys wood shed
Established Member
- Joined
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I didn't have much luck with festool fanatics and am still waiting :?
try
http://www.toolsave.co.uk
or does anyone know a cheaper place
Regard
Andy
AMENDMENT
Following A discussion today (04/01/07) with Festool Fanatics it appears they had a genuine problem with their email system that they was unaware of and this matter is being addressed. Therefore all issues are now resolved
try
http://www.toolsave.co.uk
or does anyone know a cheaper place
Regard
Andy
AMENDMENT
Following A discussion today (04/01/07) with Festool Fanatics it appears they had a genuine problem with their email system that they was unaware of and this matter is being addressed. Therefore all issues are now resolved
Newbie_Neil
Established Member
Hi Roger
Yes, I agree 100%. The Festool saw is just superb. IMHO, it is the best saw on the market.
You can also use the Festool guide with their jigsaw. You only have to buy the attachment, which is about ten pounds.
Cheers
Neil
Roger Sinden":27h4f7sb said:
Yes, I agree 100%. The Festool saw is just superb. IMHO, it is the best saw on the market.
You can also use the Festool guide with their jigsaw. You only have to buy the attachment, which is about ten pounds.
Cheers
Neil
Hi all, We were burgled in May 2005 and most of my tools went, after the insurers did their thing I was £1700.00 out of pocket. When I replenished my tools I ended up buying Festool, I have to say they are light years better than the other makes I have owned. The saw and guide rail is spot on, and I have the router which I use with the rail also, I have on order their small vacuum. Their orbital sander gives a very fine finish, and the jigsaw’s very accurate. From now on when I’m looking for a new tool it’s Festool first, and if they don’t make it then I’ll look at other makes.
