Fast dovetails

[Charlie Stanford]

The few times that I've bothered with RC haven't impressed me at all and this is one of them. As always, it's nice soft, squashy white pine that he's using (for both bits I notice) but although the pins were well cut, they were poorly proportioned as the slope looked far greater than 1:6, which is what he ought to have set them out at...setting the apex of the pin at zero also looks wrong (at least in my eyes). The end of the tails were also far too close to the front of the joint...proper convention sets out the end of the socket board in quarters. On his, it looks like there's about 3mm which is far too little.

What is clever is that he did it less than 7 minutes...but why?.. apart from showing us that he's a bit of a smart ar&e.

I'd like to see him do something like this properly using rock maple sides, correct 1:8 slopes on the pins that don't diminish to nothing (2mm is about right for adequate strength, which his won't have) and a decent bit of mahogany for the front.

If you're impressed by the speed, crack on :wink:...if you're not, look elsewhere for best practice - Rob

Agree completely.

 

[robcosman]

We must be having a bad day? Surrounded by todays doom and gloom and you boys are getting all worked up over a "meant to entertain" video clip.

I don't make it a habit of responding to these type of comments but thought this one deserved it. The experts are out in full force, "Squishy Pine", "bad proportions", "gaps", "scare off the newbies"!

These are some dandies! Northern White Pine, about twice the price of Oak over here in the colonies. Should you ever care to visit and get the chance to tour some places where antique furniture is displayed you will find Pine as the most popular choice for drawer sides, secondary wood and in many cases the entire piece is made from this "cheese". I have my students practise with it, teaches them to develope a light touch. Very unforgiving wood, easy to cut and chisels but the tools have to be very sharp. It allows the new woodworker to develope his technique before building the muscle needed for the harder woods.

"Bad proportions", says who? Last time I checked no one had the final say on that one. I use to hear this a lot at woodshows, usually the concern was the small pins and that they would easily break. Many have seen me stand on the joint once the glue dried, seemed the best way to prove a point.

"Gaps", but just one! Truth be known, we shot that clip 15 times, had to get everything right in one take. Camera angles, sound, me cutting, me speaking. That wasn't the best joint (nor the worst) but it had the least number of other errors. Two cameramen trying to get the right shot without getting each other in the frame and me working like a dog to keep it under 7 minutes-try it!

Now we are going to scare the newbies from trying. Should we make it look harder, really hard?! Make it take a weekend, pare each pin, test and re-test. I think I would be more inclined to try something that seemed simple and straight forward. I think I am smart enough to recognize that the expert should be able to do it much faster. But to be scared off because it was done too fast and looked too easy? Lets give a bit more credit to these brave dovetail wannabees!

Finally yes it was a bit of an informercial, featured my new saw, my dvd and mentioned my book. Perhaps if we took a look at how many folks have learned to cut dovetails with these tools it might out number the naysayers.

I just got in from teahing a workshop in Seattle, had a 63 year old student who's third attempt was as good as it gets, remarkable. you'll never guess what saw he was using!

In closing, no one asked you to watch it, but everyone has the right to comment if they choose. However if you decide to comment with a challenge be prepared to defend your position.

Have a nice day and remember Haiti if you have any extra funds, they need it. cheers
Rob Cosman

 

[MikeG.]

Excellent response! This whole thread really has made me smile........

At first I wondered whether woodworkers were doing the same as sports fans......creating their own heroes, setting them up on pedestals, only to knock them straight back down again, but what I now think is that many contributors to this thread lack a sense of humour and perspective.

Lighten up chaps! It's a bit of fun.......and, actually demonstrates an awful lot of skill. You've seen the challenge. Can you make as good a joint in under 7 minutes? No? Too sniffy to try, maybe? I'm not.....I'll have a crack at it this weekend, and I don't expect anyone to sneer! It's only a joke.

Rob, if you are still following this.......I'll try it in ash with a 30 year old tenon saw. If I break seven minutes and can't fit my little finger through any of the gaps, could you send an extra $5 to Haiti for me?

Mike

 

[Mr Ed]

Welcome Rob -nice to see the subject of the discussion join in with a robust stance. You have confirmed what some of us were saying, that this was a bit of fun and meant to entertain.

I don't know what it is about dovetails that seem to bring out the most polarised and entrenched views in people, like most things in life there are numerous ways of doing it, all quite acceptable.

For what its worth, reading the 3 part series you did in F&C Magazine some years ago and then seeing it demonstrated in person at Westonbirt got me to the point where I can produce reliable results, so I for one value your teaching.

Ed

 

[PeterBassett]

**REPORT TO MODERATOR**.robcosman**REPORT TO MODERATOR**

Now that is amusing. :lol: Fair play Rob, good on ya for putting your side across.

 

[robcosman]

Tell you what I will do. For any orders I receive off my website, if you mention this thread I will send 30% of the total to the Red Cross Haiti fund. You have to trust me on this and I will give you an accounting at the end. Lets say between now and the end of February. There is a comment section on the order page. My wife's brother spent two years in Haiti working among the people so I have known of thier plight. This latest disaster got to me, we as fellow human beings have to do something. I made a donation and I urge eveyone else to do what they can. We're all in this together!
Rob

 

[MikeG.]

Well done Rob..........thanks for that. Unfortunately I don't buy tools, but I'm sure some others here will see the merit in that offer.

Mike

 

[DovetailingNewb]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned his choice in, um, bench appliances. My wife walked behind me and asked me what I was watching. Her comment was, "OMG, does that thing need batteries?" :roll:

The only reason that your wife was the only person to recognize that appliance is because she has to use one on a daily basis.

All in all, this is an excellent video. Nowhere does Rob say that this is the proper way to do it. He makes these videos to demonstrate his skill, showing you that if he can do it this good in 7 minutes, imagine what he can do when he takes the time and puts a sincere effort in it.

The bottom line is that everything that most of the critics have said is unable to be backed up with a proper argument. If you can do it better, then film it and post it on YouTube. Finally, I agree that Rob is using this to promote his products but why else would he do it, he has to support his family.

Can't wait to get the DVD and actually try to do it myself.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Rob,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for taking the trouble to respond.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MikeG.]

The only reason that your wife was the only person to recognize that appliance is because she has to use one on a daily basis.

We're not that sort of forum. I wonder if people could resist this line of discussion, please, because it would be a real shame to have this thread locked. This can only end in tears.

Mike

 

[DovetailingNewb]

The only reason that your wife was the only person to recognize that appliance is because she has to use one on a daily basis.

We're not that sort of forum. I wonder if people could resist this line of discussion, please, because it would be a real shame to have this thread locked. This can only end in tears.

Mike

I apologize, and that is what I believed as well, and was wondering he brought that up in a woodworking forum in the first place. I realize I might have taken it to far with that one. Again, I apologize

 

[MikeG.]

Welcome, DTN, by the way....and now that we have that behind us please do join in our friendly little corner of the internet. Above everything we like photos on here.......stuff you've made, workshops , and some twisted souls even like to see pictures of woodworking tools!

Mike

 

[DovetailingNewb]

thank you, I am glad to be here, however I do not believe I am ready to post any pictures. Like I mentioned, I am awaiting my DVD, we will see what happens after that

 

[jimi43]

Hi Rob

Welcome to the forum!

Glad to see you respond to comments. Can you turn the elevator music off please!

Thanks.

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

Hell's teeth...why do I have to upset everyone? :lol: As I said earlier, it is a bit of fun, but in my view...misconstrued fun. I stand by the comments that I made in that the clip doesn't show best practice for cutting these sorts of joints, especially for a newcomer to this game.
Not sure about your white pine though Rob...I wonder if it's twice the price of quarter sawn English Oak, which is what's generally used for drawer sides in the best work on this side of the pond.
No offence intended and if I have caused some angst, then apologies...welcome to the forum btw - Rob

 

[wizer]

Look Look it's Rob Cosman, can I have your autograph sir? :wink:

Just kidding Rob, good to see you backing up your business. More power to you. You over this neck of the wood this year at all?

 

[andy king]

You over this neck of the wood this year at all?

Indeed he is - here: http://www.getwoodworkinglive.co.uk/
Along with Philly, and a host of top end woodturners including Richard Raffan, Alain Milland.

cheers,
Andy

 

[robcosman]

Venturing over in early March, hired to demonstrate at the above show in London on March 12-13 weekend.
Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned his choice in, um, bench appliances. My wife walked behind me and asked me what I was watching. Her comment was, "OMG, does that thing need batteries?" :roll:

The bottom line is that everything that most of the critics have said is unable to be backed up with a proper argument. If you can do it better, then film it and post it on YouTube. Finally, I agree that Rob is using this to promote his products but why else would he do it, he has to support his family.

Can't wait to get the DVD and actually try to do it myself.

Newb...

We are entitled to an opinion. If Rob Cosman puts his head over the parapet, and not everyone agrees with him, then he has to be prepared to take the flack, which it seems he is. At least he's stuck his head up again, but no pot-shots this time.

I don't have to prove how fast or otherwise I can cut a dovetail. Whether or not I am faster doesn't matter either, as I don't have the means to prove it inconclusively.

Rob, I admire your skill with a saw and chisel, but the slope of those tails was still too acute for my taste. And for that reason, as I said, my old foreman would have condemned the joint.

On that we shall have to agree to differ. Welcome to the forum, and if you are staying around, don't be shy of posting. Enjoy your visit to the UK too.

Regards
John

 

[Jake]

Cool: precise and thorough rebuttal.
Not so cool: The bodyguard.