Eye opening experience

[johnnyb]

Just thought I'd expunge thus experience from my system.
Monday I started a new job. I saw the ad on indeed and applied. It was a company restoring sash windows. Sounds great I thought.
Alarm bells were ringing all the time. Interview, chats everything was dodgy
To sum up. They started in November by a guy whose name was associated with 23 different businesses! Never seen him. The guy day to day running was an archetypal dodgy salesman complete with merc and bad attitude.
The ops man was a nicer guy but had no clue about what was needed.
Turns out they have got hundreds of thousands of pounds of work that's signed up by his little team of dodgy salesman and get this barely a thought of how they will fulfil.
I did half a day in an old couples house before quitting thinking this will end in tears.(AND COURT)
How can this happen that people are so trusting they will pay up front to a company whose literature is basically glossy fabrication. If I stood in front of them in my overalls they would instantly distrust me or even try and knock me down. Guy in a suit hands you a glossy brochure...here's my savings! Psychology is just a powerful tool in the hands of liars.
I'm convinced they have no intention of doing any sash repairs or only enough to keep the gravy train going until they declare bankrupt and split the money. All absolutely true.

 

[johnnyb]

What stopped me dead was the next job was a 270 mile round trip. At 45p a mile that's a lot of cash to be running risks with(14 windows!). I convinced myself I would never get paid. I think all trades/crafts struggle with selling because there's no separation. Those salesman can promise anything verbally. And when it's brought and paid what they've signed for is very little. (If anything) will they ever see there money again? Hopefully they've paid with credit cards.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Unfortunately these shysters do exist and pop up time and time again.

 

[johnnyb]

I was pondering why sash windows. I can only think it's because sash windows =money+ old age.
They certainly do exist and the law protects them once that contract is signed.

 

[Cabinetman]

I was pondering why sash windows. I can only think it's because sash windows =money+ old age.
They certainly do exist and the law protects them once that contract is signed.

I think you’re correct, can’t remember the figures but I was shocked at how much a pair of sashes and frame in accoya was, it was a good few thousand.
Recommendation is the best way with this sort of thing. Lucky escape by the look of it.
Ian

 

[johnnyb]

These guys had zero infrastructure. They just hinted at well get a local joiner to do that if sashes need making. It was just draughtproofing filling splicing at that first stage.

 

[Richard_C]

The huge gap in company law is that its so hard for Directors to get disqualified. We has a company pop up in our village, rented office and showroom space from a local farmer who never got paid, all fancy and flash, must have taken a fair few orders, did a couple of bodged jobs, one for someone I know. Disappeared overnight leaving unfinished work and complaints. When you looked them up on companies house, clicked the name of the main Dircetor and went to the bit that shows you other directorships there was a whole chain of companies set up then wound up, doubtless leaving a few employees, lots of suppliers and a good few customers out of pocket. And there is nothing much to stop them doing it again, and again, and again ....

Looks like you got out just in time and before you found they would pay you once, maybe twice, then "sorry its a bit held up, computer" etc. Worth looking up the company name here: Get information about a company
and clicking on every Director to see where else they have been. It might need nowhere, some people just get friends and family to act as Directors for the purpose of companies house even if they know nothing of the business.

Difficult balance, you want it to be easy for people to set up a stsrt-up company, but it seems to me that it's too easy to avoid consequences of malfeasance.

 

[bourbon]

It's fun digging on companies house and other websites, All in the public domain. Last company I worked for, bought a HR guy in to do a hatchet job on the workforce. He was employed as a sub contractor. Bit of digging. His dogs name was Henry and his front door colour was blue! Just a bit of insurance if I had been called in. He doesn't know what I don't know.

 

[johnnyb]

Yes definitely took me a couple of meetings to understand what was going on. The real eye opener was how effective this marketing was. Bringing in huge swathes of what for me would be great work. If they had an infrastructure I'm sure it could be a goer. The smack in the face though was going to the old couples house and seeing they didn't know what was going on. I was only helping a sub contractor here who was also concerned about payment. They loaded my van up with staff and parting etc. Anyway I quit immediately but when I ran the stuff back it was almost like they were glad I twigged. And were good about it all. I was expecting"mither"!
Now if only I could market myself better......

 

[johnnyb]

Just checked and they don't even register on trustpilot.....now that is dodgy as there leaflet say 4.7! And trustpilot is dodgier than a greasy pig in the dodge factory anyway. Avoid at all costs.

 

[Bingy man]

I could never be comfortable where the old and potentially vulnerable people have parted with large sums of money and will not get what they have been sold . Good on you for realising. When these things come out and the brown stuff hits the fan it’s often the workforce that cop the flack .

 

[johnnyb]

I still don't really know what was happening it was just speculation on my part. But it just didn't smell right. They were old but didn't seem really vulnerable tbh. Many years ago I remember fitting some doors for a guy who specialised in selling to old people it seemed. He was tight lipped but his wife clued me in on her own(she was slightly embarrassed and apologetic) they had teams of lackeys looking for leads as soon as they had a lead the big salesman went in. He knew the laws regarding this intimately and could work his magic and cone out smelling of roses. He was selling an exterior masonry paint which he insisted was good stuff. I'm a simple guy more likely to be exploited than exploit but I was amazed how hugely profitable all this rubbish was.

 

[LancsRick]

As I understand it the same protection which is brilliant for small businesses through the use of Ltd company constructs is the same approach that allows these fraudsters to operate with such confidence.

No idea how you counter it other than educating Joe public that they need to research their choices for everything.

 

[Bingy man]

I personally think the biggest defence for these types of salesmen is simply not to enter into any business on the doorstep by cold callers . Do they not simply have to say ghe customer agreed and I was invited in . And yes plenty of smiles over tea and biscuits and they get sucked in . One of the biggest problems for the elderly is a lot of them don’t get any visitors and will happily let strangers in and have a bit of company for 1/2 hour .

 

[johnnyb]

Its hard for me but I imagine it's because typical listed/old building people would have been(financially) successful and unlikely to gel with a chap who's capable of making stuff but a rough diamond. Hard to be confident about. That illusion of a turn key solution needs a face. Someone who disregards the process just sells the benefits. When hundreds of thousands are involved everything gets murky.

 

[mcostello]

I live in the country in Ohio. I had an "Irish traveler" pull in the driveway and offer a discount priced driveway paving. The truck had a sign stenciled on the side that stated "Road Department." It was made to look like a State highway truck. I have heard of Them but never encountered one. Nothing against Irish, We thought We were descended from Ireland till the DNA test came back, We are from everything else from that part of the world.

 

[Keith 66]

About 15 years ago my elderly parents who lived 300 miles oop north had some roofing work done, Just picked the first company out of the old yellow pages remember that? AA roofing or something like that.
3 blokes turn up & spend three days up there banging & crashing. Job done & Dad gives them £6,500.
6 months later the roof is leaking again, I go up & have a look & it dont look good. I then find out from mum they have had the job done already, Dad wanted to get them back to do it again & got all shirty with me because i put my foot down & told him he had been ripped off.
I got a local guy in who did it properly for £600, He told & showed me that the job had been bodged something awful.
Thing is old people want to keep their independence & have control, even when they get ripped off often they refuse to believe it can happen to them, Scumbags exploit this tendency to the max.
Mother in law did similar, this was after we had power of attorney & taken all her bank cards, cheque books etc away, despite this she was still so determined to pay a scammer she found an old bank statement & gave them her bank details over the phone. The bank stopped the payment straight away.
Sometimes its hard to help people!

 

[johnnyb]

I struggle to believe there's a whole industry that are set up to exploit older people. It's almost dystopian on a Sci fi level.

 

[Jester129]

@johnnyb, believe it! As Scully would say (he might not, don't want to put words in his mouth) "They're out there!"
Barstewards, they need their gonads ripping off!

 

[TomGW]

I live in the country in Ohio. I had an "Irish traveler" pull in the driveway and offer a discount priced driveway paving. The truck had a sign stenciled on the side that stated "Road Department." It was made to look like a State highway truck. I have heard of Them but never encountered one. Nothing against Irish, We thought We were descended from Ireland till the DNA test came back, We are from everything else from that part of the world.

Do they have the same 'Irish brogue' that doesn't actually belong in any part of Ireland?