Electrical Sockets inside cabinets

[Jake]

As near as makes no difference in practice (i.e. adhere to the Regs unless you are an EE who knows what they are doing to the nth degree and can justify it), but technically, the Part P Approved Doc doesn't prescribe following the Regs, instead, it adopts the safety aims of the Regs, and just says that one way of demonstrating that you have met those aims is to follow the Regs.

And, to add some more legalism, the Approved Doc is itself only guidance to meeting the requirements of Part P itself - the only actual legal requirement is the very short statement that reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations to protect from fire or injury.

None of the above is likely to carry any weight with a BC officer unless you are one of said EEs, so in practice you are right.

 

[chippy1970]

I have fitted lots of kitchens with islands and a lot of those had 13 amp sockets in them, so they cannot be attached to the "building fabric".

My electrician is fully qualified and I have never heard him saying that you cannot put sockets in fitted furniture.

I have built loads of fitted furniture and every now and then I have had to fit sockets to them, not any more as the regs have changed and I have to use a sparks now.

You are right that you should NEVER fit sockets to free standing furniture.

 

[Jake]

As he is fully qualified and is competent to inspect and sign off his own work, he no doubt takes the view that he's entitled to depart from that bit of guidance in the circumstances.

That's one advantage of being fully qualified and competent to inspect and sign off your own work.

 

[Anonymous]

You need to watch the height of the socket from the floor as I seem to recall the regs stipulate between 150 and 450mm for the floor.

I think it may be Part M of the Building Regs that you are thinking of - accessibility for wheelchair users, etc? If so, Part M says sockets and switches should be between 450mm and 1200mm off the floor (.

No, not that. I looked at this two weeks ago as a friend is rewiring his house. I am pretty sure the distance was specified 150-450mm off the floor for electrical outlets on wall (unless above a worktop etc. natch).

Not got hold of the 17th edition yet Jake, but it is cheaper from the IET (£50) than from Amazon (£65) at present.

I checked the IET site and cannot find any indication of the regs implementation being held back until June - surely once published, they are effectively THE guidance? I would expect that non compliance leading to death or injury would be indefensible in court.
In my professional opinion, one should effectively consider them a legal requirement when carrying out any electrical work

BS:7671 (IEE Wiring Regulations, 17th Edition)
The latest edition of BS:7671 Requirements for Electrical Installation (IEE Wiring Regulations 17th Edition ) was published in January 2008.

The Institution of Engineering and Technology plays a central role in the electrical installation industry in terms of standards and safety and is known for its independent and trusted voice in this sector. It manages the national committee JPEL/64 which prepares and updates the regulations for the safety of electrical installations in buildings and publishes the standard BS 7671:2008 - the IEE Wiring Regulations.

The IET provides and publishes extensive guidance upon the standard as well as related codes of practice. During the course of 2008 the Guidance Notes and the On Site Guide will all be updated to align with the 17th Edition.

BS:7671, 17th Edition, was released in January 2008.

 

[Jake]

No, not that. I looked at this two weeks ago as a friend is rewiring his house. I am pretty sure the distance was specified 150-450mm off the floor for electrical outlets on wall (unless above a worktop etc. natch).

Ah, OK, there would be a interesting clash then. Interested in the ref if you can find it Tony, as I'm about to get inspected (but I think I comply anyway, mostly).

Not got hold of the 17th edition yet Jake, but it is cheaper from the IET (£50) than from Amazon (£65) at present.

Amazon is where I looked, so thanks for the tip.

I checked the IET site and cannot find any indication of the regs implementation being held back until June - surely once published, they are effectively THE guidance? I would expect that non compliance leading to death or injury would be indefensible in court.

There is a transition period, I think, in which design may or must comply (can't recall as it doesn't apply to what I'm doing, the design having been done last year) but in which installation may be to 16th edition standards.

In my professional opinion, one should effectively consider them a legal requirement when carrying out any electrical work

And in mine, I agree, effectively - you'd risk being in severe evidential difficulties (in proving that you were acting reasonably, or in accordance with a substantial body of professional opinion) if you departed from them.

Obviously the guidance I brought up is a long step down from there, but it still would carry (less) evidential weight so you would have to justify departure.

 

[BradNaylor]

I am making some alcove units soon and want to know if is it ok to mount the electrical sockets that would normally be in the wall, into the inside back or side walls of the cabinet?

I come up against this problem all the time when fitting alcove units - which seem to be about half my business these days!

My solution is simple, and has been approved by my fully qualified electrician mate.

I cut a hole in the back or side of the cabinet slightly smaller than the flush fitting socket on the wall. Then unscrew the socket from its box and pass it through the hole in the cabinet side/back. This can normally be done without disconnecting any wires. It's best to turn the leccy off though!

Then, using extra long screws obtained from a local electrical wholesaler, screw the socket back into the original box in the wall until it is tight up to the inside of the cabinet.

The result is very neat and tidy.

As has already been said - this kind of solution is only for fitted furniture, not freestanding.

As far as kitchen cabinets and islands are concerned, I simply do not get involved. Get a Part P electrician in.

Cheers
Dan

 

[chicken_house_man]

It's now 18 years since I worked as an electrician. What we used to do and I see no reason why it shouldn't still be accept is you use metal boxes with good quality flexible conduit, properly put together it provides enough protection and strain reflex. The other stuff we occasionaly used was wire braided flex. Again with the proper termination glands it provided all the regs required.

One of the main issues is having terminals in a non flamable enclosed box.
Plasterboard boxes would probably only fill the spec when fitted in plasterboard. ANother is that the outer sheath should be within the box so no insulation shows, again not always easy with a plasterboard box at the best of times

 

[DavidE]

I checked the IET site and cannot find any indication of the regs implementation being held back until June - surely once published, they are effectively THE guidance? I would expect that non compliance leading to death or injury would be indefensible in court.
In my professional opinion, one should effectively consider them a legal requirement when carrying out any electrical work

Just to pick up on this point... If you download the index from the IET site.
IET index link

The scope of the new regs states this:

BS 7671:2008 Requirements for Electrical Installations was issued on 1st January 2008 and is intended to come
into effect on 1st July 2008. Installations designed after 30th June 2008 are to comply with BS 7671:2008.
The Regulations apply to the design, erection and verification of electrical installations, also additions and
alterations to existing installations. Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier
editions of the Regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean
that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

As others have said there is the grace period after publication - as companies individuals need to take the City and Guilds courses/exams depending how long it is since they got their 16th.

Cheers
David

 

[Jake]

Ah OK, that's why I knew it didn't apply to my current stuff, because it isn't even stuff installed after 1st July, it is stuff designed after 1st July.