Ebay seller wanting to add vat

[artie]

I'm sure another will be along in a while but they are rare
Its a fobco pillar drill the 7/8ths one with gearbox
its reasonably local for me for collection (nottingham)


Maybe others could bombard the seller with queries ?

If it isn't new he shouldn't be charging VAT.

why not? It isn't about whether it is new or used, but whether the seller is a registered business or not?

It's a few years since I was VAT registered so things may have changed.

But AFAIK Vat is only due on new goods.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you go to auctions regularly, you'll often see VAT on huge amounts of second hand goods where the vendor is VAT registered. If you buy a second hand commercial vehicle you'll probably pay VAT on it.

 

[artie]

If you go to auctions regularly, you'll often see VAT on huge amounts of second hand goods where the vendor is VAT registered. If you buy a second hand commercial vehicle you'll probably pay VAT on it.

Yes I had a think about it while making breakfast and there are instances where Vat is due on second hand stuff, but only if it wasn't paid when new.

For instance if the builder buys a new pick up for £25000 and reclaims the vat, drives it for 10 years and sells it for £2000,

he must account for the vat in the price he received.£1600 + £400 vat

He can sell it to joe public for £2000 and account for the vat himself or sell it too another vat reg business for £1600 + vat.

But if someone buys a new Pick up for £25,000, can't reclaim the vat, drives it for 10 years and sells it for £2000 they get to keep it all.

I think I got that right.

Edit to add I know the £1600 and £2000 arne't correct but I can't be arsed figuring it out

 

[doorframe]

For what it's worth I've contacted him through ebay and pointed out his 'error'. Also reported the listing to ebay.

Personally, I wouldn't deal with with the sneak. Apart from blatantly breaking the (unenforceable) rules that everyone else plays by, he's also hiding the bidding... private listing - bidders' identities protected... which is the first sign of a shilly auction.

You won't get the extra 20% back from paypal if you do pay it and the then dispute it, as was suggested earlier. Although ebay/paypal have cleaned up their act recently, they will see it as 'you' braking the rules as well.

So, either go for it, knowing the guy is a scumbag and your getting a bit stitched up,

OR

Give it a wide berth and wait for the next one.

I know which I would choose.

 

[Eric The Viking]

On VAT, it's really simple: there are categories of product and service that attract VAT. If you sell any of those and you are VAT registered, then you remit VAT to the revenue on those sales. It doesn't matter if you did or didn't pay VAT on the goods originally.

Additionally, if you sell to consumers you advertise VAT-inclusive prices; if you sell to other businesses you advertise ex-vat prices. I think that's just custom & practice rather than hard-and-fast law.

The only exception to that I can quickly think of is new-build property, which is zero-rated (technically different from 'exempt' but neither attract VAT).

In the property case, I think that implies the contractor eats the VAT on anything bought in (materials and contract labour), but I've never been in the position of buying a brand new property, so I can't say.

Worth noting that the EU long ago declared its intention that VAT should be charged on all categories of product & service, albeit in varying amounts (known as 'harmonization').

---------------------

On the eBay auction, good call.

 

[artie]

On VAT, it's really simple: there are categories of product and service that attract VAT. If you sell any of those and you are VAT registered, then you remit VAT to the revenue on those sales. It doesn't matter if you did or didn't pay VAT on the goods originally.


.

Not correct.

VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.

If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.

 

[defsdoor]

Hi,

Please be advise that I have amended my listing as I have been made aware that VAT can not be added to the final value.

Just to confirm the final bid price will be the amount that the winning bidder will need to pay!

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[mind_the_goat]

Not correct.
VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.

How would you know that?
If you are VAT registered then you charge VAT on sales, no distinction between new or used. There is an optional alternative that allows you to charge on the margin.


Anyway, the OPs original problem appears to have been solved, Good luck with your bidding.

 

[RobinBHM]

Not correct.
VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.

How would you know that?
If you are VAT registered then you charge VAT on sales, no distinction between new or used. There is an optional alternative that allows you to charge on the margin.


Anyway, the OPs original problem appears to have been solved, Good luck with your bidding.

A VAT registered company has to charge VAT on the sales invoice, it doesnt matter what tax was paid on the input side. There is an option to pay different levels of VAT ie 20%, 5%, 0% but they are restricted to very limited goods IE food, heating oil. There is a VAT exempt option but Ive never come across anything to which that applies.

supermarket plastic bags go through a lot of wasted VAT processing, from raw materials to the supermarket they generally go through 3 companies all having to charge VAT, which the next company reclaim on the purchase side and then a the supermarket they are usually given away free! (5p charge from Oct)

 

[artie]

Not correct.
VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.

How would you know that?

I said it's been a while since I was Vat reg and am happy if someone can prove me wrong

If you are VAT registered then you charge VAT on sales, no distinction between new or used.

If that is the case try asking for a vat receipt the next time you buy a used car.

 

[Eric The Viking]

If that is the case try asking for a vat receipt the next time you buy a used car.

I've a feeling the tax rules on motor vehicle trading are different. The normal situation is as we've all said: VAT on the invoice amount.

I've been VAT registered personally twice, at different times in my life, and it was the same for both periods. I last de-registered around 2008. I've never been a motor trader though.

 

[mind_the_goat]

Not correct.
VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.

How would you know that?

I said it's been a while since I was Vat reg and am happy if someone can prove me wrong

If you are VAT registered then you charge VAT on sales, no distinction between new or used.

If that is the case try asking for a vat receipt the next time you buy a used car.

What I meant was how would know if VAT was paid/reclaimed when new. It does however appear that rules for used cars are different depending on a few factors including if the dealer paid VAT when they purchased it. a useful tool here https://www.gov.uk/vat-vehicle-sales
Really can't think why cars should be treated differently to any other item but I guess it keeps a few thousand accountants and civil servants in a job.

 

[artie]

Really can't think why cars should be differently to any other item but I guess it keeps a few thousand accountants and civil servants in a job.

It's not only cars. I only gave that as one case.

A dealer a few years ago tried to charge me vat on a used item, not a car.

I counted him out the price minus vat and told him what he did was attempted fraud and did he want to call the vat office to check.

He quickly took the money developed a red face and decided he was needed out the back.

The normal situation is as we've all said: VAT on the invoice amount.

Just because you all said it doesn’t make it so.

Anyways no point going on with this. But I suggest you check when buying a used item whether the vat charge is legitimate as 20% is quite a bit to throw away on some purchases.

 

[woodpig]

The subject of VAT was covered on another forum many years ago and I can't remember the details but VAT can be charged on the same item over and over again if it's re-acquired and sold by a VAT registered seller. Morally "wrong" as far as I'm concerned but when did that matter! :lol:

 

[doorframe]

Hi,

Please be advise that I have amended my listing as I have been made aware that VAT can not be added to the final value.

Just to confirm the final bid price will be the amount that the winning bidder will need to pay!

Sorry for any confusion.

Yep, that was his reply to my rather abrupt ebay PM. Also pasted onto his listing. Still don't like the hidden bidders list, and that's enough to put me off (if I was interested in the item) but at least that part is sorted now.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any legitimate reason to hide the bidder's identities? I can't think of one.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Maybe if you were selling a collection of vintage erotica? I tend to avoid auctions with hidden bidders as it makes it even easier for the seller to shill.

 

[brianhabby]

This thread seems to have moved away from the original topic and decended into a discussion about VAT generally.

I spoke to a lady at eBay last night about this listing and for once it seems they have acted as others have noted above and forced the seller to now include VAT in the final hammer price. Just shows what can happen if we work together

So the OP can bid with confidence that he will only pay the final price and not an extra 20%, assuming he is the winning bidder of course.

I don't know why some people hide bidders identity for things like this though.

regards

Brian

 

[dickm]

In passing, my Fobco cost £35, not THAT many years ago ! And didn't pay vat on it, either

 

[RogerS]

Not correct.
VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.

How would you know that?

I said it's been a while since I was Vat reg and am happy if someone can prove me wrong

If you are VAT registered then you charge VAT on sales, no distinction between new or used.

If that is the case try asking for a vat receipt the next time you buy a used car.

If they are VAT registered then they have to charge some VAT and give you a receipt if you ask for it. The amount of VAT charged on a secondhand car depends on what VAT scheme they are running.