Dust extractor

[Chippygeoff]

Hi Folks.

I am going to get a dust extractor soon and have never had one before. I am turning a second bedroom into a workshop due to the planning authority not letting me have a new workshop bigger than 8 x 6. I was thinking of getting the Can Vac 55litre drum extractor with 4inch hose, the one that sits on the floor on wheels. It has twin motors and is often called the lean green machine. I was wondering what the noise level would be like. I have been told it is about the same as a household vacuum cleaner. If this is true it will be great. I was also told that in a test it drew dust in from 90 feet away, sounds impressive. If anyone can throw any light on this subject I would be really grateful.

Geoff.

 

[cornucopia]

definitely nosier than a normal vacuum cleaner and don’t half give out some heat- you can reduce both these problems by ducting the outlets outside or thru a baffle box, but there still noisy to be in the same room as when you’re working.

 

[NikNak]

Geoff


Seriously..... i wouldn't start doing things like this INSIDE the house....

Is your house detached..? or a semi/terraced..? If it's not detached don't be surprised if you start getting complaints from neighbours due to the noise travelling through the walls etc. (and not just from the dust extractor.... (hammer) (hammer) (hammer) )

Are you going to 'dust proof' the entry door into the bedroom as well..? as it's surprising just how far the dust can go, and get.

Have you considered a larger shed which doesn't need planning permission/consent..? as that's all i've got and it works fine for me.



Nick

 

[chipmunk]

Hi Geoff,
I've just bought a wall mounted version of the same extractor. It is certainly powerful when on full power - so much so that I have had to install some fine mesh chicken wire over the input after a small finial I was reverse turning got sucked up twice as it slipped out of my grip as I was fitting it into a jamb-chuck!

When I asked Peter Helmsley at the Toolpost whether to go 2.5" or 4", his advice was to definitely go 2.5" for fine dust rather than big shavings. As well as being cheaper for the unit and the ducting I think the extra speed of air flow helps. My reading between the lines of the brochures suggests that the 2.5" has a more efficient cyclone action so that the filters will need changing less often but that may be me putting 2 & 2 together and making 5.

It is noisy when using both motors but I think you could quite easily build a box on wheels around it. Both input and exhaust would need to be routed through the box around a bend or two (similar to cornucopia's baffle-box idea) to keep the noise down although the bends on the input will need to be gentle.

If you are worried about noise in your internal workshop you could try fitting an extra dry-lining of plasterboard with rockwool behind it to get some more isolation? Insulating the ceiling in the same way may also be a good idea. Replacing the existing door with a cheap firedoor will add some more weight as well as fitting draught excluder all round the door and adding a door stop along the bottom of the door jamb too.

Good luck and I hope some of this has been helpful
Jon

 

[PsyMan]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permis ... /miniguide

Thats a pretty good guide on planning for anyone else considering a workshop, it gave me enough information to build a 12 x 12 workshop and still stay well within the rules. I found the visual guide a blessing after trying to trawl through written guides that seem to be there to baffle even hardened actuaries.

Doesnt help with the original question much though but I would concur about the dust indoors, doesnt matter how much extraction you put in to place a LOT will still spread through the house as it hangs in the air for ages and the droning noise will travel.

 

[Chippygeoff]

Hi Guys.

Many many thanks to everyone who replied. I am really grateful for all the advice. What happened was this. When I started turning three months ago or rather made a comeback to it I was only going to do it as a hobby to occupy my time. I was going mad with boredom, being disabled no one will employ me so I took up wood turning. Five minutes after turning my first piece I decided I would turn it into a small business and it has gone beyond my wildest expectations. For the last three days i have been working 16 hours a day. I thought I would do everything proper and wrote to the council explaining the situation and asking for permission to put a 12 x 10 workshop in the garden (I called it shed in the letter) They wrote back and everything was fine but they said the biggest i could go to on the workshop (shed) was 8 x 6 and that would have been no good to me at all.

The current situation is I have a small workshop attached to my semi-detached bungalow but it is only 7 x 6 and it has some serious problems. It is a single course brick construction with a ply and felt roof. If I were to stay in there I would have to stud it out with 2 x 2, then put in 2inch polystyrene between the studs and in the roof, then cover it all with half inch plywood. I would have to do this to stop the condensation in the winter and to stop everything from going rusty. On top of all this I would have to put a new roof on. I have electric lights in there but no wall sockets so I would have to get a sparky in. I feel I would be looking at £1500 to do all of this and although I am a chippy and joiner by trade I am no longer physically able to undertake this work.

The solution would be to convert the second bedroom into a workshop, thankfully I am semi-detached and the second bedroom is on the end by the road. It has loads of power sockets, double glazing and central heating, what more could I ask. I realise there is going to be a problem with dust and thought the best way round this would be to do as Jon suggested and fit a door stop to the floor and a door seal, maybe later on fit a fire door as well. I have a large window with two side opening sashes and a top opening and i thought when I get the big green cleaning machine would be to run a hose from the motor and out through the small window for fresh air intake and as you suggested Jon I will get the 2,5 inch instead of the 4inch. I may even get the wall mounted one like yours as I can see when the bag is full then.

Jon. One question. When your bag is full do you empty it into another bag or do you have spares. Obviously it would be easier to put a new bag on every time but are they expensive. The extractor would obviously be used mainly for dust collection when I am sanding a piece on the lathe and I feel the extractor will excel in this. I was thinking of having a funnel connected to the hose and have it by the lathe bed. My only other concern or not knowing really is the shavings. sometimes I am up to my ankles in shavings and when it gets like that I scoop them up into waste bags and give it to the post master in the village for his little zoo. I would hate to think the bungalow would be covered in dust and shavings but I will take precautions making sure all the other doors are shut. Any advice would be gladly welcome as I am going into the unknown a bit here. Many thanks to everyone.

 

[nev]

hi geoff, would it not be feasible to knock down the existing workshop and replace it with a nice size double garage type construction?
effectively adding the 7x6 to the 12x8?
one thing i have learnt over the years is that it is easier and quicker to get permissions for hobby (residential) related extensions and outbuildings than if they are for business use.

 

[Chippygeoff]

Hi Nev. Hope your keeping well. No mate. It would not be feasible to knock the old one down and start again, it would cost far to much. It's a bit of a pain in the bum at the moment because I still have all the gardening stuff in there which i have to unload every morning before I can get in, things like mower, strimmer etc, then I have to rig the extension lead up. I think it will be a joy when i move into the second bedroom and I can use the existing shed as a wood store then.

Geoff

 

[NikNak]

sometimes I am up to my ankles in shavings and when it gets like that I scoop them up into waste bags and give it to the post master in the village

I used to have a SIP chip collector in my workshop (read shed...) quite efficient, but darned irritating (read noisy...) when running all the time...... so in the end i would do exactly what you already do..... leave it switched off and scoop up the shavings when i was ankle deep in them..... worked much better

Five minutes after turning my first piece I decided I would turn it into a small business and it has gone beyond my wildest expectations.

errr...... you will now need business insurance not just ordinary household insurance....... if you're gonna tell 'em that is and if you don't and have a err 'mishap...' you wont be insured....


really dont want to sound like a 'killjoy'...... but think twice, nay thrice before doing this indoors.... #-o


Nick

 

[Shay Vings]

I have the smaller Camvac and its noisy, certainly a lot louder than a domestic vac. But the Record product is similar.

There are posts explaining high speed/low volume and high volume/low speed depending on whether its dust or chippings you are extracting which are worth a read.

I agree the best way is to house the noise generator in a separate cupboard from the workshop, but my "solution" was to punch a few holes in a cardboard box and jam it over the exhaust port. As long as the total area of the holes is no less than the area of the exhaust port grille then there should be no loss of suction.

It looks really horrible Heath Robbo but it does cut down the noise a lot and as I only use it for the sanding operations it is acceptable

 

[chipmunk]

Hi Geoff,
To answer your question I have a few bags and so when one's full I swap it for an empty one and then after emptying out the old one recycle it. The Camvac bags are pretty strong and durable.

The baffle box idea is a good one described by Shay. It's cheaper than the official Canvac solution of two of their proprietary hoses attached to the exhaust ports chucked behind a cupboard (seriously ;-). I have a very slightly more sophisticated version of Shay's which is a sealed wooden box about 14" x 14" x 4" with a baffle running up the middle, from the bottom & about 3/4 of the way up inside. Air goes in the bottom left through a 2.5" port, has to go up and around the baffle at the top and then exits bottom right through another 2.5" port in the side.

I then have a T-joiner with two short hoses attached to the 2 exhaust ports of the camvac and into the inlet of the box. It reduces the noise of the extractor quite a bit but I still really only use it when sanding and cleaning up.

I also have a Jet AFS500 air filter which scrubs the air all of the time and can be fitted with a charcoal filter for absorbing solvents when the windows are shut. I know people with Microclenes but the Jet is quieter.

Hope this helps
Jon