Dust Extraction

[Pabs]

SITUATION So I got some chips and fine dust extraction set up for the three machines I have - (mitre saw, linisher/disc sander and bandsaw) but in spite of a blast gated system with gasketed connections everywhere I was getting a lot of fine dust production.

I was searching for inline filters and fans like a kind of HVAC system and came across entire product catagues dedicated to growing plants inside. Then I thought of an idea!

PROJECT What I propose is an organic solution.

1. buy areca palms. lots of them. maybe 6? depends on space.
2. buy a indoor growing greenhouse. can get little ones depending on how much space you have
3. buy air ciculation fan for greenhouse with a HEPA fine dust on the intake, to the greenhouse (situated low down) and a duct out of the greenhouse at the top.

Potential Issues: i think you'd probably need some lights for the greenhouse too but they could be on a timer and low energy ones. Areca are great air scrubbers and like a dry climate so would need to take care of excess humidity from drying timber out - but this could even be placed in the greenhouse on racks to help air dry more efficiently... Every once in a while change the hepa/ clean it. if it's clogging too quick introduce a dust sock before it in the system. and perhaps a smart dehumidifier.

Electric cost is obviously an issue but I'll see if solar can provide some / all, the fans have timers on them so can go to a few watts, or ramp up to a cue such as a low energy bluetooth tile type tracker that can sense when I'm in the shop. Have no idea about lights but imagine can run them a few hours a day, the window could provide enough light through the day? maybe.

I'm already commited to it. Told the wifey I could also have a go at providing salad stuff in it too. I'm halfway through building this system, I'll post pictures when I've finished it. along with air quality / subjective results!

 

[baldkev]

Im confused
If youve got fine dust, either the suction isnt up to it or the extractor is inside your workspace and the filter bag is letting it out ( air has to pass through that bag )

A lot of commercial setups have dx outside. you could skip the greenhouse, lights and shrubbery by venting to an outside dust collection 'cupboard' or shed. This does loose heat in winter.

You can get good filter media for an internal setup, or, put it in a cupboard with some good filters up high to allow the expelled air out to be cleaned further.

Look up a guy called bill pentz and read through his website. It'll take a while and can be heavy going but you'll learn more there than anywhere else ( a member here called inspector is very knowledgeable on this, but any replies will be long and take time to write )

Edit to add, do not use inline fans in conjuction with your dx setup, it'll ruin the airflow......

 

[Pabs]

Thanks Kev.
I've got fine dust extraction and chip extraction but I'm looking for more of an air purifier solution sorry if this was not clear.

 

[Jameshow]

Thanks Kev.
I've got fine dust extraction and chip extraction but I'm looking for more of an air purifier solution sorry if this was not clear.

You'll need a Venus flytraper for chip extraction!

 

[ian33a]

You could have gone for something like this:

https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-professional-ap25afs-air-filter-230v-107709
While not completely organic it could loosely be called light plant equipment

 

[Pabs]

ha!
Thanks for the comments.
I'm realising it's a stupid idea. Sorry this is pretty much my only sounding board given wifey doesn't like discussing this kind of stuff

growing my own veg is an established hobby already, I just thought perhaps I could combine some of what I already have with the air purification issue.

What I'll do is post a schematic of what I've done once finished. if it doesn't do much to help the air quality I'll put it in the conservatory instead and buy either the axi or a record power

 

[Jameshow]

I cannot see why it wouldn't help plants give off oxygen which we breath. You might have a pollen issue though ...?

 

[baldkev]

ha!
Thanks for the comments.
I'm realising it's a stupid idea. Sorry this is pretty much my only sounding board given wifey doesn't like discussing this kind of stuff

Not stupid, maybe a bit misunderstood....
In terms of air purification, i would think if the extractor / existing filter bag were doing their job correctly, the fine dust would be under control.
Ideally your dx is powerful enough to suck away the vast majority of dust and chips and ideally the filter media ( bag / cartridge etc ) is of a high enough spec to filter down to 0.5 micron..... hepa media is good.

Maybe post up what your system is so people can offer potential improvements?

 

[velar]

You could have gone for something like this:

https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-professional-ap25afs-air-filter-230v-107709
While not completely organic it could loosely be called light plant equipment

I think he's looking for more of a root and branch solution than just a name change

 

[Pabs]

Not stupid, maybe a bit misunderstood....
In terms of air purification, i would think if the extractor / existing filter bag were doing their job correctly, the fine dust would be under control.
Ideally your dx is powerful enough to suck away the vast majority of dust and chips and ideally the filter media ( bag / cartridge etc ) is of a high enough spec to filter down to 0.5 micron..... hepa media is good.

Maybe post up what your system is so people can offer potential improvements?

thanks Kev

I only have three machines atm, a small bandsaw, 4x6sander and a mitre saw
I have a single DX1000 / 1.3hp extracting these via splitters and three blastgates.
I have a JSP Force8 I wear when using these machines or when handsanding

After a day away from the shop I see a fine layer of particulate on top of surfaces - not much - but enough to make me worry about pneumonoultramicroscopicsiliovolcaniciosis!

 

[baldkev]

I can't pronounce whatever you just typed, but I'm a fulltime carpenter..... ive probably breathed in more mdf than you'll ever get to sand I'll probably die young ( which better be soon because i dont feel that young any more ) , however, if you check out bill pentz's website and info, you will be armed with enough information to sort your dust issue out and be safe

 

[Pabs]

thanks for bearing with me Kev!
I've fired up the pentz link, fascinating stuff. thanks for that.

 

[Jones]

If you want to go organic lime trees have slightly sticky leaves and trees and hedges of pleached limes were often planted in cities to control dust and smoke pollution. Not sure how you would get that to work in your workshop in winter though.

 

[Pabs]

I'm nearly done with this project . Just an update... I'm going to use the space as a mixed use / drying area for fresh logs / firewood / curing onions etc. To be clear this is completely separate from the dust extraction stuff, this is more to ensure air is scrubbed as well as have a constant circulation of air.

I will post pictures and diagram of the build soon when it's fitted and finished together with anemometer readings and calculations re: air changes.

below is the intake i'm halfway through installing in a central spot in the workshop. Initial 'ideal world' calculations suggest 12 air changes per hour running at full tilt but will be interesting to see how effective it is once all sealed in and installed properly. I ran it overnight last night @ 50% power after not using any power tools. There was no dust lying on surfaces which usually is the case after a day.

​

 

[Pabs]

I've pretty much got it all working; have used temporary flexible ducting for now but will order some 8" pvc or 8" spiral ducting - this may help reduce friction in the system and improve overall efficiency and noise reduction
Total noise when system on full tilt is 80 dB @ 1ft from intake; when on 20% power it is 45-50dB.
I've done a diagram to show the system as it currently stands (with exception of the ducting)

To demonstrate efficacy I thought I could compare the effect of the system being on with it being off - perhaps a piece of float glass left on the workbench overnight could demonstrate dust fallout over a defined period and then compare with the system on - but if anyone can suggest a better way i'll try that