Dust Extraction Problem!!!

[Michel]

Hi adam,

I've had a look at Bill Pentz Website and from what i can understand most peoples dust collection systems seem to be inadequate for fine dust collection unless you have 6inch + ducting and a huge blower and cyclone combination. Plus you would need to upgrade all your connections on your machines to 6 inch. I'm very concerned about the fine dust issue after reading his site and I'm now even more determined to get it right for my own health and my family. So it looks like vacuum systems are just no good at all for fine dust collection.

Looks like i need to look into a cyclone system of some sort :?

I can see that this is going to take some time to resolve.

Although I'm concerned about the health issue, it does concern me that the cost of this system will be phenomenal :!:

If i didn't enjoy woodworking so much i would almost be tempted to give up for my own health and family.

Am i over reacting :?: :?:

any comments or opinions would be appreciated

Regards

Michel

 

[Adam]

Am i over reacting :?: :?:

any comments or opinions would be appreciated
Regards Michel

Yes and no, I'm no expert on dust extraction, so if you have genuine concerns, talk to a professional.

DaveL built his own cyclone ...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2352

Personally, if I wasn't in the workshop (with some risk of dust exposure) I might be drinking in the pub with the additional long terms risks of a heart attack or exposure to smoke. Sitting in front of the TV like a vegetable isn't much better (I'd die of boredem). Everything is about balanced risk.

Use more hand tools?

Adam

 

[Michel]

Hi,

I guess the only machines that create fine dust are sanders or routers. Unless using MDF. So as long as you are using ply or wood (apart from sanding and routing) the risks of being exposed to fine dust are minimal anyway.

Just a thought :wink:

Regards

Michel

 

[Adam]

Hi,

I guess the only machines that create fine dust are sanders or routers.
Michel

What surprised me is how much the tablesaw creates.

In my own "percieved order" of "fineness" of dust - nto quantity produced

#1 sander
#2 lathe
#3 router
#4 Planer/Thicknesser
#5 bandsaw
#6 tablesaw
#7 jigsaw
#8 drill press
#9 morticer - (not much at all)

Only with the last 3 do I not use duest extraction - although I don't *always* use the extra with the ones at the top - sometimes just a dust mask. I do not consider myself to have got my system to a level I am happy with yet. I'm still working out my options. In the meantime, anythign is better than nothing.

Adam

 

[cambournepete]

I think you are over-reacting.

IMHO, unless you're breathing dust all day every day you've not got a lot to worry about.

I guess the camvac will be adequate for your needs; you can always add a workshop air filter to get rid of any stray fine dust.

I intend to build an outside cover for my twin bag chip collector/extractor so the dust from this stays outside my garashop.

You can always get a powered respirator as well - and wear it all the time your're in your shop.


Cheers,

Pete

 

[Michel]

Hello,

Yes i agree i have over-reacted to the Bill Pentz Website. But it does make interesting reading and does make you think about the fine dust issue.

As in my previous post i think in my new workshop i will use my HA2600 for my machines and use either a Camvac or similar to connect up my mitre saw and power tools etc.

Might look into getting a workshop air filter like the jet one in the future once i have saved some pennies

Do any of you use a powered respirator :?: Any good :?:

Thank you for all the info and advice it has been very helpful

Regards

Michel

 

[beech1948]

Hi All,

I am a bit puzzled by the apparent lack of differences between Camvac and Record DC. The Record DX4000 seems to be the equivalent to the Camvac 386 but the Record has a 4 inch inlet the Camvac only 2.5 inches.
The Camvac being quite a bit more money. They use similar if not exactly the same filters and internal bags as far as I can see.

If the originator of this question were to install the Record DX4000 as a base for an extractor system with 4 inch hose, a fine dust collector ( Jet say or Axminster MFM) and wore a mask such as the AirAce from Trend rather than a powered respirator would this solve all his problems.

The Record could also cater for smaller power tools eg sanders because it currently comes with a hose kit to adjust from 4 inch to whatever typical size smaller tools use. Possibly the only issue is that the Record has only 80 litre of space before it is full...probably effective usefull space is 60 litre before performance drops off a bit. ( just a guess).

I'm just curious as to how far we would need to go. The cyclone solution has some issues of space ( large footprint) to worry about, probably self manufacture and possibly still would need an additional fine dust separator with costly exhaust filters to be in the loop.

By the way I'm not a fan of those tall bag type collectores as they are designed to return particles from 5 micron down wards to the workshop atmosphere...so you would still need the Jet air filter as well.

What do you all think.?

 

[Midnight]

Beech...

you're not too far from the mark... the accepted norm is that you definitely need an HVLP system for large "chip creating" tools, and HPLV for "dust creating" tools. No matter how hard you try, you'll never have a system that's 100% effective even with the ceiling mounted filter. Best bet is to try to remove as much as possible at its source; a table saw with dust extraction built into the blade guard will help, esp if you're cutting sheet goods. Tailed hand tools that can couple directly to a shop vac should be considered essential IMHO.
It's been my experience however that there is a viable alternative. I'm not gonna say easier... nor cheaper...
Hand tools simply don't create dust. If you can get into the habit of using a smoothing plane rather than a sander, that's gonna make a huge impact. Steering clear of material that's prone to being reduced to dust helps too. Hand tools work for me cos I hate to wear face masks in the shop, although I do when there's no alternative.

On a side note.. it pays to set aside some time now and then to thoroughly vac the entire shop down, ceiling, walls, floor, under / around all the big machines, stock shelves etc; you'd be amazed at just how much can accumulate over time.

 

[Alf]

If you can get into the habit of using a smoothing plane rather than a sander

And/or scrapers.

Cheers, Alf

Enjoying the novelty of watching someone else apply grease to The Slope

 

[PitBull]

Regarding which tools create fine dust or not.

I was flattening a badly out-of-true beech bench top in the week using a hand-held power planer (Bosch green jobbie). I didn't expect any fine dust so didn't bother switching on the Jet air filtration unit, didn't connect the E/B dust extractor and didn't wear a face mask - just decided to sweep up the shavings at the end of the session. I was coughing through the night.

The following night on continuing this exercise I turned on the air filtration unit and wore a face mask. No coughing at all, and I was much surprised at how dusty and brown was the previously blue and pristine air filtration outer filter. Just goes to show !!!

 

[beech1948]

Midnight,

I agree with what you say about hand tools. In my post I was just trying to find the lowest cost way to solve the orginal post as an exercise.

The hand tool revolution had until recently past me by. I was a confirmed Normite and relied upon my machines for accuracy and some precision. Wait for it, gloat that is .....I have a Felder 341 combo which lives upto the fantasy so well that I have got used to dialing in a cut size and just getting exactly that cut.

However, I recently decided to make myself a bench with front and tail vice. I did not have one because using machines I did not really need a set of vices. My assembly table and a raft of clamps was all I needed.

The bench came about because I inherited some of my fathers tools and tried to use them. Bad mistake. So I have made my bench using only hand tools. Dust poroduction has reduced a lot. Sawing down planks means I had to buy an old Disston rip saw, I have learnt that a scraper or a plane leaves a great finish rather than sanding on some timbers and my scrap pile has reduced remarkably as I practiced dovetails and M&T joints from very large to very small.

I found a secondhand tool shop in Norfolk which furnished me with a set of pre-1930 chisels which are all Sorby or Marples, some pig sticker mortice chisels a set of paring chisels and so on. I am not a collector but I will not tell you where this marvelous shop is until I have plundered it. Average price for chisles was £6.31 and most were as new.

My poor Felder is wondering why It's not getting any of the smaller fine cuts these days as it is used mainly for initial cutting out and P/T with mu hands doing much of the rest of the work.

The quality of my work by hand is not as good as my machine work...yet but the gap is visibly closing as I practice.

Sorry for long rant.

 

[Midnight]

Alf Wrote..

And/or scrapers.

Indeed..

Enjoying the novelty of watching someone else apply grease to The Slope

grease..???? naa.. 'orrible stuff... I'll stick with irradiated PTFE... AKA Type 44 awsome stuff... :twisted:

 

[Alf]

I found a secondhand tool shop in Norfolk... <snip> I am not a collector but I will not tell you where this marvelous shop is until I have plundered it.

I say! Foul! We'll jolly well call you a collector if you don't share.

I'm obviously not a collector 'cos I do.

Mike, PTFE?! On a hand tool slope?! Fie and forsooth.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Midnight]

Mike, PTFE?! On a hand tool slope?! Fie and forsooth

definately...

just cos they're handraulic, doesn't mean they can't be cutting edge..

 

[Alf]

cutting edge..

Groan, groan, groan...

 

[Midnight]

Groan, groan, groan...

ummmmmmm....... that was unintentional..

 

[ProShop]

Sawing down planks means I had to buy an old Disston rip saw,

AAhhhhhh Bliss, now were talking proper saws.

If we're into the gloating season, did I mention I have a couple of these fine examples

 

[Michel]

Hello everyone,

just been doing a comparison of the camvac 386, record dx4000 and axminster WV2.

The WV2 although the most expensive seems to have a few good extra features: - drum can be easily emptied thanks to the Axminster polythene bag collection system fitted as standard, plus vacuum extractors are factory fitted with noise reducing acoustic lids to ensure acceptable noise levels

WV2 info

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=23673&recno=13

Any thoughts :?:

Regards

Michel

 

[beech1948]

Alf,

>>>I say! Foul! We'll jolly well call you a collector if you don't share. I'm obviously not a collector 'cos I do. <<

Look here Alf..I'm just beginning to catch up here. Its not a foul its just good sense. If I told you where the shop is you lot would be across the country to Norfolk faster than I would claim a lottery win.

Who is not a collector ????????????????????????????????????

 

[ProShop]

Hello everyone,

just been doing a comparison of the camvac 386, record dx4000 and axminster WV2- drum can be easily emptied thanks to the Axminster polythene bag collection system fitted as standard,

The Record also has a plastic bag for easy emptying, noticed this today as I was looking at one.