Dust extraction advice

[Jamied]

Hello everyone, in need of advice please
I have a 10 metre by 7metre workshop,
I have the following gear
Sedgewick ta315 table saw
jet q18 bandsaw
kapax mitre saw
2x router tables axminster ujk
wadkin 9"planer
dewalt thicknesser
sedgewick thicknesser
kufu linisher
poolewood lathe
dewalt scroll saw
I am currently extracting dust with a number of camvacs and 2 x jet DC11000A
I recently bought a dust deputy to fit my festool extractor for my power tools im very impressed with it.
So i then spotted a large super dust deputy cyclone on fleabay. Bought it, don't tell the wife!
I have a single garage next to my workshop where i want to set up the cyclone with a extractor to have a ducted system into the workshop. The extracted air to be vented outside as i live rural, but in winter i would fit it to a fine dust filter so i keep my heat from my precious wood burner.
My question is this.
Instead of buying a new/used more powerful extractor could I use both my jet extractors.
If I fit them on the wall above the cyclone side by side, within a equal short distance and no bends and the same spacing.
Use the 5" outlets from them to a Y junction that then becomes 6" pipe straight in to the 6" cyclone entrance. Then duct in 6" around the workshop from the cyclone with short 100m drops.
The outlet air from the extractors to be ducted outside individually so I do not create a full circuit.
I appreciate I would not be doubling up extraction power but would it increase suction?
Would the Y junction just become a whirlwind inside and not do much.
Is it the same principal as a twin motor camvac?
Am I going mad with this or just being tight? Or is there a slim chance it could work?
I would appreciate any advice from the experience and knowledge of yourselves
Thank you Jamie

 

[MattRoberts]

No direct experience, but I researched this a while ago as I had a similar idea.

By all accounts, running two extractors in parallel has no real impact, as the two extractors compete with each other and end up starved for air.

Running them in series has a positive impact, but you need to be careful that the motors have enough amperage to handle it.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php ... er-Cyclone

Ignore most of the people, just read Bill Pentz' replies

 

[PAC1]

Unless you have multiple machines running at once, 1 Jet DC1100 would be sufficient. I have one DC1100 extracting from a Felder 410 with 16" planer and thicknesser, 12" saw and a large spindle with no problems whatsoever. The DC1100 is a cyclone system so I am not sure why you needed to buy another cyclone.
The trick is to use the largest duct you can ditch the Y splitter and run one big duct.
I would keep the camvac for fine dust machines such as Kapex and bandsaw.

 

[Jamied]

Thanks Mat
That info from Mr Pentz was really good, although the first paragraph says in parallel is ok, but later says not. I think it might be best if I sold the two jet extractors and found a 3Hp fan.
Thanks PAC1
I needed another cyclone to collect the main bulk of dust from my system as I am ducting outside straight after the fan, to expel all fine dust , so the jet vortex system would not be there, as I was only going to use the fans.
I want my extractor in the next room so its quieter. I thought one dc1100 would not give me enough suction on that distance.
I will take your advice and go for the biggest duct I can on my system.
And I think your idea of keeping the camvacs for the kapex and bandsaw is really good.
Thanks for your help.

 

[sunnybob]

You can run two together, but they have to be tuned just like carburettors on an engine.
You need an amp meter, and blast gates on each machines pipes. by closing one or the other blast gate slowly you can get the two machines to pull the same amps which just means that the motors are not competing against each other.
You wont get twice the airflow of a single one though, you should get about 80% of each performance, which is the same as 100% of one and 60% of the other one. still better than a single, but you have to decide if you want to do all that rather than just buy a bigger one.

 

[Jamied]

Thanks Sunnybob.
I have to say it does sound like a bit to much messing for me and most likely a better performance if I just got a bigger single fan, maybe 3hp.
I`ve seen a SIP one on the net for good money that would easily be adapted to duct outside . Does anyone have one of these?
SIP3 HP single bag 01954 extractor at toolstoday for £350
id just be using the fan only as I'm using a cyclone and then ducting outside.
Or does anyone know of a company that sells just a good quality fan?
Thanks Jamie

 

[Selwyn]

Jamie

I have done exactly what you have done to good effect. I have mounted a Charnwood dust extractor on the wall and then it sits on top a 205 litre plastic bin and use one of those dust extractor bin lids. It is the vented outside for the waste to keep fine dust away.

I rang up the guy at Kendal tools and asked for the best/cheapest model and he sells sip and charnwood and he told me that they were very similar so don't get hooked up on specs written on the side because each company does it differently. The charnwood w691 is plenty meaty enough to pull off the planer and to pull elsewhere with diversons and is about £265.

I only get excess chip being chucked outside if the box gets too full otherwise its just dust

 

[Jamied]

Thanks Selwyn
That's encouraging, can I ask what size of ducting you are using and how far your extractor is from your machines?

 

[Selwyn]

100mm and pt is only 2m away but everything else is 5m plus

 

[PAC1]

Thanks Mat
That info from Mr Pentz was really good, although the first paragraph says in parallel is ok, but later says not. I think it might be best if I sold the two jet extractors and found a 3Hp fan.
Thanks PAC1
I needed another cyclone to collect the main bulk of dust from my system as I am ducting outside straight after the fan, to expel all fine dust , so the jet vortex system would not be there, as I was only going to use the fans.
I want my extractor in the next room so its quieter. I thought one dc1100 would not give me enough suction on that distance.
I will take your advice and go for the biggest duct I can on my system.
And I think your idea of keeping the camvacs for the kapex and bandsaw is really good.
Thanks for your help.

I am not sure why you cannot use the JET DC1100A. This is exactly what I have done. My ducting runs on the ceiling of my machine shop and then through a wall to an outside cupboard that holds my extractor. I took the fan and motor off my Jet DC1100A and fitted it high up with the fan in line with the duct. I then ducted down to the vortex and filter. The chipping and dust are collected in the bag and waste air exits the filter. You have to remember to check when the bag is full but it works very well and the air in the workshop is mostly clean. The duct run is 9m with a very slow bend and there is one branch. The duct size was matched to the DC1100A without the Y splitter. I have a remote switch that operates the extractor and a vacuum on my crown guard.
The noise and fine dust is outside. The only thing is you are then operating at about 18 air changes per hour depending on the size of your shop. I have a woodburner that cannot be on whilst using the extractor as it will suck the smoke back down the chimney and smoke you out.

 

[Jamied]

ok PAC,
you have me back to thinking of my two jet dc1100a.
I have never used these extractors , I got them cheap a few months ago .
I just assumed that over a distance one would not be enough HP.
If its good on yours then that sways me.
And id rather use what I have than spend more money.
Taking off the splitter it is a 5" outlet so I could duct a system in that,
however if I was to ever go to a bigger extractor in a few years I would then need a 6" duct.
Rather than change all the ducting later what would happen if a used a 6" duct with the jet extractor with a 5"outlet?
Thanks Jamie

 

[PAC1]

My ducting is 6 inch diameter. Take time to design the duct route. You want the shortest straightest route. No Tees, no sharp 90s and no branches. Keep the duct as large a diameter as possible for as long as possible and remember a 100mm duct is not two thirds the size of a 150mm duct it is less than half the size.

 

[MattRoberts]

My ducting is 6 inch diameter. Take time to design the duct route. You want the shortest straightest route. No Tees, no sharp 90s and no branches. Keep the duct as large a diameter as possible for as long as possible and remember a 100mm duct is not two thirds the size of a 150mm duct it is less than half the size.

All really good advice from PAC. I might challenge the 'no branches' bit

Branches are often a necessity, and they're ok as long as you gate as close to the branch as possible

 

[Helvetica]

I have mounted a Charnwood dust extractor on the wall and then it sits on top a 205 litre plastic bin and use one of those dust extractor bin lids.

My ducting runs on the ceiling of my machine shop and then through a wall to an outside cupboard that holds my extractor. I took the fan and motor off my Jet DC1100A and fitted it high up with the fan in line with the duct. I then ducted down to the vortex and filter. The chipping and dust are collected in the bag and waste air exits the filter. You have to remember to check when the bag is full but it works very well and the air in the workshop is mostly clean. The duct run is 9m with a very slow bend and there is one branch.

Is there any chance you fellows would post photos of your setup? I have questions like what height is the plastic bin at, what does the ducting look like in terms of position, what happens to the duct when you get close to a machine etc. It would paint 1000 words to see them in action. Myself deciding between a charnwood 3hp W692 and the Jet with cyclone. If it's the charnwood I may bypass the cyclone part and just collect outside and let the fine dust off to the atmosphere.

 

[sunnybob]

Height of the bin is immaterial, put it wherever its easiest for you to empty.

If you can get a correctly sized cyclone, it is the best way of saving you work. The whole point of a cyclone is to divert the waste into a larger (or easier to change) bin than the dust extractor comes with. I now have a 50 litre bin for the waste, which will fill up before the supplied bag starts to. Dont buy a little 50 mm cyclone if youre putting it into a 100 mm system. Its just a choke point for air flow.
If youre woodworking for a living, you want the biggest bin that you can get, so you dont have to empty the bag every three hours.
Machine and duct positions have no bearing on each other.

 

[Helvetica]

It's just a hobby, I'm trying to get the best out of a 16" planer thicknesser which requires a 150mm duct. I was afraid a cyclone would drain power from the system, and that the best result might be to have one duct from machine to impeller, and just dump everything outside in a barrel, and empty the barrel at the end of the day.

 

[sunnybob]

I think youre right. I was amazed how much chips a planer makes very quickly.