Dust & chips extraction : What to buy

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Noho12C

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hello,

going to move to a house with a garage in the coming weeks, I am planning to get some machines (finally !).
I plan to get a bandsaw and a P/T, the idea being to prepare rough timber and do the remaining work with handtools.

I have a good idea of the bandsaw and P/T i would like to get, however I'm a bit lost regarding the dust extraction (even though I have been reading extensively on different companies websites, eg Axminster and RP).

I was originally thinking of somthing like that RSDE, but i'm not sure it can really handle chips from a P/T.
Is a HVLP compulsory with a P/T ?

What are your thoughts on it, and experience if any ?

Many thanks,
Chris
 
I'm a bit of a novice but I personally would go with a high volume extractor.

Just bought a Fox F50 842 and it's performing brilliant on my router table which is in use a lot and produces plenty of chips / dust.

Cheaper and certainly quieter than the Record you're looking at but there will be better advice from more experienced users without a doubt.
 
Until recently (ie last week) I was using the smaller brother to that Record for all my machinery - and it worked well. Dust filtration was good and enough flow for the saws but it did struggle when I upgraded my pt to 300mm - I could take light cuts but it tended to clog if I wasn't careful. the noise was dreadful too.

I just got an Axminster FM300B from a guy down the road; its pretty much the cheapest they sell so I wasn't too optimistic at first. However the flow is a country mile better (really no comparison at all), I can be as hamfisted as I like with the pt, the bag is bigger, the noise is a lot more acceptable but I suspect the filtration might be a bit poorer. It is a hell of a lot bigger which might be a factor.

So, will the record work - yes depending on the size of your pt. But if funds/space/power allow a chip extractor might be more future proof. If you do choose this rout I would recommend actually seeing one - they are big.
 
You will need a HVLP extractor with a PT. The usual advise works, buy the biggest you can afford / accommodate. I personally like to locate them outside the workshop as you then don’t need to worry about any small particles escaping and potentially going to the expense of cyclones, filters etc. (Yes it will extract any heat in the workshop very quickly) The amount of shavings a PT generates will quickly fill a bag, hence get the largest capacity. The next thing you want is the biggest air volume it will pull. The Startrite MDE-HCS range of extractors are often dirt cheap on auction sites secondhand and also seem to have the highest extraction rates for a single phase unit I’ve found 3000m3/hr for the single bag version. Run the largest diameter of pipe in fixed tubing as far as possible to the machines and then if required the shortest length of flexi. Blast gates if you hooking up to more than one machine. You can usually get all metal tubing including elbows, connectors eyyc for free by driving around industrial units and asking to take away stuff that’s in the scrap pile. Anything from a metal works (I.e. linked to Linishers, welding fume extraction, grinders etc not plating systems) is considered ‘contaminated’ and costs to dispose of so there usually delighted for you to take it away. The metal dust inside the pipes just needs mixing with other material to become legally none hazardous. Saw dust / shavings cleans them out very nicely!
 
Thanks all for your inputs.

Size will definitely be an issue, as it will be a one car garage. Also, the P/T will be an entry level one (most probably an Axminster AH106 or AT107), so width of cut wont be massive.

What concerns me the most with chips collectors is the particle size filtration. HPLV seems to handle up to 0,5 micron, however HVLP seem to need a specific fine dust filter.

Is fine dust filter actually needed with a band saw and P/T ? (Not planning to get a sander or router)
 
oh, another point i forgot :

one thing i like about the HPLV is the possibility to use it a general shop vacuum, to clean after working, just like a standard household vacuum.

Can a HVLP be used the same way ?
 
I'd have a look and see if you could situate a HVLP outside of the garage and pipe it through the wall.

Less noise although they're pretty quiet anyway and the finer particles are outside of the garage.

I'm pretty sure my workshop is a similar size or smaller than a single car garage and I build a small lean to just for the purpose of housing the HVLP.



 
Noho12C":3udwbeyu said:
oh, another point i forgot :

one thing i like about the HPLV is the possibility to use it a general shop vacuum, to clean after working, just like a standard household vacuum.

Can a HVLP be used the same way ?

Size wise only you can answer that; my 'machine shop' is 1.5 a standard garage but isn't full of other crap (lawnmowers etc etc). The HVLP can easily be used as a general vacuum - actually very good at it. Raymonds idea is very nice if you can manage it.

Your prospective planers are pushing the LVHP a bit but its still doable and it is a lower cost option.
 
Thanks guys for inputs and ideas. Im not sure i can put it outside as the house will be rented. So it will stay inside. The issue i have with vacuums is the noise.

I'll have a look at Axminster and see their models of HVLP, and see the size and cost with added fine filters. Looks like the best middle ground !
 
I think we all agre that hvlp would be the best solution if you can accommodate it. They are not quiet but the noise is a lot less 'screechy' than and therefore shouldn't annoy the neighbours as much.

Before I bought my 2nd hand axi FM300BC I did a lot of research and it did get quite bewildering; different claims on the air flow, widely spread pricing made it more confusing. I thought the iTech units sold by Scott & Sargeant seemed the best deal at the moment.
 
Noho12C":2pobg8b1 said:
oh, another point i forgot :

one thing i like about the HPLV is the possibility to use it a general shop vacuum, to clean after working, just like a standard household vacuum.

Can a HVLP be used the same way ?

Yes it can, but the 100mm flexible pipe is very heavy and difficult to manoeuvre, Impossible up onto a bench, best if its stepped down to domestic size and standard vacuum tools used.

Mike
 
Some experience (not advice!) - I use my little HPLV ("shop vac") every day for all sort of jobs, including tidying up after hand tools. It also attaches to the bandsaw.

I have a chip extractor for the big planer, but only attach it if I'm doing serious jobs. The planer is big enough to push away most chips by itself (old Wadkin) for smaller jobs. A decent dust mask is a necessity, and worth having anyway.

If I had to only have one, I'd choose the shop vac.
 
Chris, I use a Numatic NV750for my bandsaw and an AWEDEDD2 for my P/T, both from Axminster. They both cope very well.

John
 
I started with a £100 HPLV Draper drum extractor with a universal motor. This was ridiculously loud and the relatively small collection bin soon filled up when used with my bench top P/T but it served for the time and as the P/T was also really loud the extractor didn't really make much difference.

Following a hearing test at work I decided to gradually replace all my tools with those using induction motors. Extraction being the first on the list. I sourced an induction motor and HVLP blower from Gumtree and built myself a Thien separator machine, this is a lot quieter and also uses a 70l black bin which increased the capacity immensely. My intention is to pipe the exhaust of the machine outside the workshop so any small particles that bypass the separator are blown outside, currently the exhaust just blows out of an open door.

I also use this for cleaning the workshop, I usually place the pipe on the floor and then brush the debris across the floor to the pipe which sucks it up. I will make a dedicated floor sweep hood once the workshop is finished and permanent rigid pipework with blast gates are installed.
Dust Collector1.jpg


The Draper unit performed well despite the noise so I have reused it. I have installed it inside a mobile mitre saw cabinet that is fully lined with sound insulation and a secondary panel filter. This sort of filter is usually used in commercial HVAC systems, I have mounted it in the door for filtering out any small particles that make it past the filter inside the extractor unit. I control the extractor manually from a switch mounted on the side of the unit and when coupled to the custom dust shroud behind the MS blade removes the majority of the dust at source.
extractor box_opt.png


One thing that you should be aware of is that unless you spend a fortune on Festool products the standard extraction points fitted to a lot of tools a woefully inadequate, the Axminster TS200 table saw springs to mind. To get good extraction from these usually requires redesigning/replacing the dust ports with something not restricted by tight bends and grills and of a larger diameter. For example, my TS200 has had all superfluous holes sealed up, the standard blade shroud removed and a large mouth dust hood mounted beneath the saw feeding straight into a 100mm pipe.

In short, dust extraction can be a bewildering subject but your right to recognise that is isn't one to be ignored. HVLP / HPLV doesn't really matter, the choice is yours as they both have pros and cons, the real differences between good and bad extraction come down to; the design of the dust shrouds, the level of filtration/exhaust point, minimising the length of runs or bends and maintaining your chosen system regularly.
 

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On a point made in an earlier post regarding using a LPHV unit as a 'hoover' for the shop. My old 100mm hose was not too good at - not supple enough - but I recently had to buy some more @125mm. I got it from dustspares.com and its a lot more supple making it really useable as a 'hoover'. At some point I'll get around to getting one of those attachements for cleaning the floor.
 
Thanks all for your inputs/advices. Really appreciated !

A HPLV seems to be the best option as I want to keep focusing on hand tools, and just preparing rough timber with a bandsaw and P/T. However, I am fairly concerned by the noise.

We are signing for the house (yeah ! just renting for the moment but still, a "real" woodshop in the garage, what a luxury !) and the garage is detached with no neighbour attached to it. However there are houses in the 30 m radius, so i better keep it quiet, at least for the beginning (worried about the possibility to have a P/T :? ).

Following the many comments, (and a lot of youtube watching !), i think I will focus my attention on a HVLP. Axminster has some models that seem to be fairly small, so for a start it could do. I can always upgrade in the future if it needs to.

I've seen that some of you have put their HPLV in an insulated cabinet. Isnt there some issue with the airflow or temperature ?

Thanks again all for your help on this subject. More complicated than it looks like ! #-o
 
Clarke does a 'portable' HVLP extractor which is 1HP and pretty quiet. https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cde35b-dust-collector/

I've used it for a few years on everything except sanders and it performed well. Emptying the bag is not ideal as the inlet for the bag is smaller than the bag itself but it's not a major issue. It's now connected to a small cyclone with a 60L collection drum. Filled the drum over 10 times now and there's next to nothing in the bag.

I now have a new more powerful HVLP extractor (lives outside the shed) to run the router table, bandsaw, scroll saw and disc / belt sander and dedicated the Clarke extractor to the table saw. It's pretty compact and tucks away in the corner. It comes with wall hanging brackets as well as castors.



 

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