Drive Centres

[marcros]

I have very kindly been donated a lathe- an Arundle which I believe to be a J4.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/arundel/

I am completely new to turning, and before investing heavily in a chuck, I am going to get a few cheap tools, and turn some bits between centres. At least then, I am not wrecking decent tools, learning to sharpen/profile them. That is where my first area of uncertainty comes in- the lathe is complete except drive and tail centres.

I believe that the head stock is 1MT- I have measured the hole and it is approx 1/2". It certainly isnt 3/4" http://www.toolpost.co.uk/images/Morse_Taper_Sizing.jpg. Is a steb centre worth paying the extra for, or do I need a bog standard 2 or 4 prong drive centre? If relevant, I will likely to using offcuts, and blanks prepared from boards rather than logs or green timber. If I get into that, then I can get something more suited to that task if need be.

The tail stock end, which i forget the measurement for- I presume that a standard live centre will do the job as well as any other? If I use the steb centre, does it need anything different?

Thanks
Mark

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

well...you don't need a steb centre per say but it might help a little with developing your skew technique because if only light pressure is applied its quite forgiving in the event of a catch.

Personally I never used one when I began and I think it is possible to over emphasise the downside of working with lathes. They're really not as bad as myth might make people think and if it were my time over again I would invest in a days one on one training rather than any single tool. The one to one tuition will overcome 99% of the fear when starting as it will quickly put everything in perspective. you're going to get catches....as long as you've taken the right safety precautions, don't worry...I got about 3 catches doing the fishermans priest. As long as the rest is close to the work and my fingers not underneath the tool and Ive got either mask or goggles on I'm happy. What you'll find is as you get to know the capabilities of the machine, the fear of the unknown will quickly subside, even within the first day.

So steb centre, yup you could, personally I used a 4 prong drive and a live centre in the tailstock and it was just groovy. I would spend the money on hiring a pro to come to you for a day or ask someone here who lives near you. You're welcome to spend a Saturday in my workshop if you like....I'm in Hampshire so a bit of a trek but if you're down here for another reason my door is always open (covered in dust mind but open)

 

[marcros]

Thanks Bob. If I am down your way, I might well give yo a shout.

I will check the tail stock taper, and go for the 4 prong centre.

I agree re tuition- sometimes a day with somebody showing you can get you to the same point that years without would take.

 

[tekno.mage]

Steb centres are nice to use, but somewhat pricey and certainly not a necessity. One benefit they do have (although this implies you also use a reveloving steb in the tailstock - which is even more expensive) is that they allow very accurate remounting and reverse remounting of items on the lathe - I've also seen a pair of stebs used to do a certain amount of off-center turning which was an interesting application, but there are plenty of other methods to achieve this too.

 

[marcros]

i think that those applications are some way down the line for me. chisel handles are my first major goal- when i am competent enough to make a few of those, i will look for other projects! Before i get onto those though, there are a few skills to learn.

Another question- the belt on the pulleys looks a bit worn, but it isnt obvious how to remove it. Any pointers?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

With my CL4 there is a cam lock lever that when loosened allows you to pull the motor forward and that releases the belt tension. I don't know that model but search around for an allen bolt or similar which when loosened will allow one of the pulley sets to move forward as a group (probably the rear ones). If you cant find that, look for a grubscrew that holds the pulley assembly in place and have a fiddle with that. Failing anything obvious, can you download a manual? Looking at the pictures that locking lever under the bars (red knob) looks like it allows the headstock to move along the bars.....it may simultaneously allow the motor housing to be pivoted, releasing tension on the pulleys....I'm reaching now

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Stebcentres are my most used drive centres however when I was learning to turn, (before Stebcentres were available), I was advised to use a ring centre as a drive. Use of the ring centre allows the work to slip on the drive in the event of a catch and teaches you gentle tool presentation. Until I bought Stebcentres I did the majority of my spindle work with a ring centre. To seat ring or four prong centres I use a nylon faced hammer but a mallet or suitable lump of wood will suffice.

To start I'd recommend you think about getting a four prong and ring centres coupled with a live centre for the tailstock, if your budget will stretch to a live centre with multiple tips so much the better.

Regards Mick

 

[marcros]

Hi

Stebcentres are my most used drive centres however when I was learning to turn, (before Stebcentres were available), I was advised to use a ring centre as a drive. Use of the ring centre allows the work to slip on the drive in the event of a catch and teaches you gentle tool presentation. Until I bought Stebcentres I did the majority of my spindle work with a ring centre. To seat ring or four prong centres I use a nylon faced hammer but a mallet or suitable lump of wood will suffice.

To start I'd recommend you think about getting a four prong and ring centres coupled with a live centre for the tailstock, if your budget will stretch to a live centre with multiple tips so much the better.

Regards Mick

Would you mind pointing me towards aa live centre with multiple tips- I can find the other bits easily enough but struggling on that one.

 

[marcros]

scrap that- found it on the sorby page.

 

[CHJ]

...
Would you mind pointing me towards aa live centre with multiple tips- I can find the other bits easily enough but struggling on that one.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/crafts-hobbi ... ccessories

For someone on a limited budget with a basic lathe just testing the waters I would recommend that you stick with a simple 4 prong drive centre and a simple revolving tailstock support centre.

Fancy expensive alternatives are only likely to be cost effective (and in my opinion worth getting) if you are into large quantity spindle turning projects. You may find you only like making boxes or small bowls and then any expensive centres will just get dusty in the tool draw.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Axi also do versions

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-mu ... ional-tips

I have the Sorby version which I think is very good.

Edited to say:

If I was to only buy one drive centre it would be a ring centre - the smaller 'footprint' is an additional advantage over four prong centres. I've roughed 3" oak using a 1/2" ring centre.

If looking at multi head centres consider getting one with a long hole boring facility.

Regards Mick

 

[procell]

You mention getting some cheap tools to start with. This is false economy. Try looking on well known auction sites for 2nd hand basic sets of quality tools. Your enjoyment of turning will be improved as you wont spend most of your time re sharpening them and if you find you don't like it then the resale value is much better. It has been stated in the forums many times that cheap tools can ruin the experience for a new turner.

 

[Dalboy]

...
Would you mind pointing me towards aa live centre with multiple tips- I can find the other bits easily enough but struggling on that one.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/crafts-hobbi ... ccessories

For someone on a limited budget with a basic lathe just testing the waters I would recommend that you stick with a simple 4 prong drive centre and a simple revolving tailstock support centre.

Fancy expensive alternatives are only likely to be cost effective (and in my opinion worth getting) if you are into large quantity spindle turning projects. You may find you only like making boxes or small bowls and then any expensive centres will just get dusty in the tool draw.

+1 Once you find that you enjoy turning and decide to get a better lathe then buy the expensive add ons. Also agree about the tools cheap ones can soon put you off.
Cheaper bits on the lathe will not effect you so much

 

[gregmcateer]

You mention getting some cheap tools to start with. This is false economy. Try looking on well known auction sites for 2nd hand basic sets of quality tools. Your enjoyment of turning will be improved as you wont spend most of your time re sharpening them and if you find you don't like it then the resale value is much better. It has been stated in the forums many times that cheap tools can ruin the experience for a new turner.

+1 to that.

I think I saw stevebuk on here selling his turning tools - he may have a few of exactly what you need.

 

[woodfarmer]

I think for spindle turning, and this is what I seem to prefer is a 4 point driver and a revolving tail centre.
as an extra Axi do a cheap solid centre with the centre removable for long hole boring, but the boring bars are very expensive so you might want to wait a while. it is lots of money for something you wont use much. Axi also do cheap (from about £15) face plates. With one of these all you need is a bit of plank and a screw and you have a screw chuck for smaller jobs. The faceplate will mount bowl blanks.

Rather than buy cheap tools do as advised, look out and wait for a second hand set of decent quality ones. I have to say I bought an expensive set and an extra bowl gouge or 1/2". I still use the 1/2" gouge for 90% of my turning. It was several weeks before I opened and used anything from the set. If you can find a 1/2" bowl gouge I recommend you buy it whilst you wait for a suitable set to turn up. There is an old saying: "Beware of a man with only one gun. He probably knows how to use it". A bowl gouge can be used in many ways, it will function as a spindle roughing gouge, maybe not as quickly. Rolled on its side the cutting action is very similar to the way a skew chisel cuts. It will work as a spindle gouge but is more limited in the tightness of radius of coves. Obviously it will face off and turn bowls which other tools mostly can't or shouldn't do. Best of all, it is the strongest of the lot and gives you immense leverage, so mishaps on a small lathe are much less likely to hurt you. When you get your set, it is unlikely the 1/2 bowl gouge will be duplicated. After a few weeks you will have mastered it and not been confused by the different handling characteristics of the various tools. I suspect it will always remain the weapon of choice.

 

[marcros]

How is a drive centre sized. I see that in 1mt there is a choice of 1/2", 5/8" and 1" 4 prong drives.

 

[Sheptonphil]

Sizes quoted are across the diameter of the teeth at the gripping end. 1/2 inch drive has four 1/4 inch 'blades' at 90 degrees of the point. 1inch has four 1/2 inch blades.

Steb centre (my drive centre of choice) has a 1/2 inch 3/4, or 1 inch diameter circle of teeth.

Phil

 

[marcros]

So are they just sized on the workpiece that you are using- as big a circle as it will accommodate?

I plan to get the ring centres for doing small stuff that might split, but I figured that a standard 4 prong cheapie might be useful if I had something a bit bigger.

 

[Sheptonphil]

Yes, a larger size gives better grip on larger pieces. I use a large two prong drive for big wet stuff, it just gives a better grip. Size down appropriately as work gets smaller. Large enough to drive it well, small enough not to overhang the work or put undue pressure on more delicate pieces. I have found on dry, hard, woods the two and four prong drives don't seat as well as a Steb unless you impress the ends first.

Phil

 

[marcros]

So put the drive centre into the wood and then insert it into the taper?

I like the look of the steb but want to see what I will enjoy turning first before investing too heavily.