Drill press?

[DTR]

With most 2nd hand machines being 3 phase is there a way to rune these of a 230v supply?

I dont have personal experience of 3 phase converters for domestic houses, but the lathe section here often talk about VFD machines and its not impossible to run a 3 phase motor at home from a single phase supply.

A VFD might be the answer to running an old 3-phase machine from the domestic supply, but often the old motor isn't compatible with the new VFD. That was the case with my BCA; I replaced the original 3-phase motor with a motor + VFD package. My bench drill and metal lathe still have their original (over 70 year old!) single-phase motors, but if one went pop I wouldn't hesitate to replace it with a 3-phase motor + VFD.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have a basic Rexon morticer (15 y. o. admittedly)and it's very well built - I would buy Rexon again.

 

[DTR]

As I've waded into a thread about drills, even going as far as to admit owning one, I suppose I should post up my own experience......

Our first bench drill was a generic-looking second-hand Clarke model, an older version of this one: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke- ... ress-230v/ (on/off switch on the side, different belt cover, but otherwise similar). I quickly binned the chuck guard as it usually got in the way of the workpiece. Yes it had runout in the spindle / quill, but as lip-&-spur bits, forstners etc all have a pilot point this was rarely a problem. Likewise when drilling metal, the bit will follow a centre-punch mark. I appreciate Sunnybob's comments about the depth stop, but ours was ok if you wasn't heavy handed on the quill. The depth stop (two nuts that lock together) was however painfully slow to adjust and tended to vibrate loose.

Our main problems with the Clarke were a lack of quill travel (50mm) and a lack of power for metal drilling. That lead me to buy a Walker Turner bench drill dating from the 1940s. Despite still being bench mounted it is substantially bigger and has a 100mm travel. The depth stop suffered from the same issues as the Clarke only worse, so I made a new one. The Clarke lives on in SWMBO's shed, but she's looking to replace with something that's got a bigger capacity.

 

[MusicMan]

Yes you can get single phase to three phase converters/inverters. I have three machines running off units from Drives Direct. They have a very good chap who will tell you what you need, given a picture of your motor plate.
There are other options too but i know less about them.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Dave reminds me: I have a floorstanding Clarke model, bought mainly because (a) it was floorstanding, and (b) it had slower speeds than similar drills. Machine Mart changed it because of the runout, but I'm unconvinced the new one was much better. Swapping out the chuck for a decent Rohm and 2MT adaptor (from Chronos, I think) meant it runs much truer with small drills. I still have the original chuck and an intermediate Jacobs' chuck for bigger tooling.

The biggest nuisance is that the drill table isn't too nice (round, very common Chinese design), and it's difficult to keep square to the shaft - it moves either when not really tightened on the rack+pinion, or if it's been tilted (and the tilt lock also throws it off front-back). But they're all like that, sir, unless they're something old and British.

If you must buy recent, get one where you can unscrew the quill advance handles one-at-a-time, or a model where they don't get in the way. I very often have to take at least one of them off to get a workpiece under the drill in the right place. The newer sort, with the quill advance as a "tripod" of cast plastic, must be a real PITA, and a longer lever means you can exert more pressure if you need to.

 

[custard]

I once had a Ryobi bench top drill. It wasn't total manure, but neither was it what I'd hoped.

There was some run out, enough that an 8mm drill delivered a 8.1mm hole, enough to make a dowel for example a slightly loose fit. In practise the run out was constrained in the two end grain quadrants because end grain's so much tougher, but it was free to wander in the two long grain quadrants, net result holes in solid timber were very slightly oval.

This caused problems with forstner bits, as the eccentricity would cause them to grab, you could often see the workpiece jerking a fraction as the bit entered the wood.

The drill came equipped with a laser (yeah, I know). You could get it accurate at any one point in the quill's travel, but not at every point. It was disconcerting to be drilling towards a centre punch mark that was half a mill away from the cross hairs.

For many purposes it was good enough, and there are some glowing reviews on line. This confirmed my suspicion that most on-line reviewers are either company shills, clueless, or simply don't want to admit that their buying decisions might be less than optimal!

 

[AES]

Thanks CHJ and DTR for updating my (lack of) "knowledge" of 3 phase electrics! I only know (a bit) about rotary inverters, and 28/110/200V/400 Hz stuff, domestic stuff is WAAAAY beyond my ken.

I'll follow up the link CHJ, thanks.

I'd just like to add one further point to all the "doom and gloom" I and others have written about cheap machinery - take my little (metal) lathe for example. If I hadn't bought it (but then, as said, spent a long time bringing it up to chuff), today I may well either be still waiting for a suitable SH buy to come up, OR I wouldn't have a lathe at all - there was/is certainly no way I could justify paying thousands for a decent Myford (or equivalent). But today if I need to produce a part I can do it within reason.

So sunnybob's right, beginners should NOT be put off - if taken slowly and thoughtfully, added with support from places like this Forum and youtube, etc, bringing cheap machinery up to scratch is by no means impossible. It may take time, you may make some mistakes along the way, but at the end you'll have a machine that does perform properly AND the satisfaction of having done it yourself - AND be secure in the knowledge that whatever may go wrong in the future, you'll be pretty confident about fixing it. A lot to be said for that IMO.

Even the (absolutely hopeless) belt/disc sander which I've scrapped has yielded a motor and enough other bits and pieces so that I can build the "framework" that Einhell should have built and assembled for a few quid more before selling it in the first place!

But if you feel uneasy about that approach, and just can't wait, as far as I can see you'll just have to up your budget. Sorry.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

... there are some glowing reviews on line. This confirmed my suspicion that most on-line reviewers are either company shills, clueless, or simply don't want to admit that their buying decisions might be less than optimal!

Anyone hear on the radio the interview with the guy who used to write fraudulent restaurant reviews? He set up the best rated restaurant in London. It didn't even exist.

 

[Tasky]

It's the other way around. Old electrical hand held drills generally had a 43mm collar, which was the standard most of these presses are made for. Newer versions of portable power drills often either don't have a collar or they're random sized.

I'll have to dig it out and check. Mine's definitely old - The front housing is bare shiny metal and I don't recall if it even has a collar...
I *think* it's this one, or very similar: old Black & Decker drill

A decent old press for a hand held electric drill, something like the old Wolf for example, will give you better accuracy than a budget pillar drill.

I was hoping it'd be something like that... I figured it'd be cheaper than buying a full on pillar drill assembly with motor, especially since I have the hand drill with the trigger catch already.

It's a tricky one. Bob, and others like him, repeatedly hammer the message that cheap machinery is money down the toilet, but people really, really don't want to hear that. They desperately want to believe, against all logic and common sense, that you can equip a workshop for hundreds rather than thousands. I think at heart the problem is twofold,

Threefold.... in my opinion, and I'm certainly guilty of this third fold...

For a good half-century there has been a solid DIY culture in the UK.
It started properly back in the '20s, but by the '50s home improvement and DIY was becoming a real 'thing', giving rise to and a market for the likes of B&Q, MFI, Homebase, Wickes, Focus, and others - The general impression, now embedded into our culture, is that woodworking and other related activities are 'hobbies' and thus are affordable for the average honest working man to get up to of a weekend in his little garden shed... In the beginning this was possibly true, likely from underpinning by certain skills being taught in schools, but in today's market not so much.

The problem with today's world is that anything affordable is likely cheap tat. Anything good enough to do the job is expensive and borderline professional equipment... and 'professional' means it's no longer a 'hobby'. At a stretch it's serious Enthusiast level kit, but still far beyond what most people have been ingrained to expect when the desire to work their own wood takes them on a serious basis.

Do It All, Do It Right, You can do it when you B and Q it.... just not very well.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

... The general impression, now embedded into our culture, is that woodworking and other related activities are 'hobbies' and thus are affordable for the average honest working man to get up to of a weekend in his little garden shed...

Within reason it still is, so long as you know your limitations or at least how to work around them.
Half of the secret is to go slowly, and don't buy on impulse There are people on this forum that have spent more in a couple of years than I've spent in fifty - and my gear is probably as good and possibly better than much of theirs

 

[chaoticbob]

It really depends on why the OP wants/needs a drill press surely?. I had an Axi hobby machine (the predecessor of sunnybob's disaster) and it served me well for both metal and woodworking for several years. Sure, it had some slop in the quill and spindle runout, but with a decent punch mark it would drill a truer hole than I could manage by hand. I fettled it a bit and sold it on when I lit on an old Fobco Star (200 quid) which is a far nicer machine - but the guy who bought my Axi was well pleased - it did what he wanted.

I have a friend who makes his living by mangling metal - on his bench is a crappy Draper drill press. I can curl my lip in disdain now I have the Fobco, but it does what he needs it to do, and he turns out good work.
Rob.

 

[matt]

Fascinating thread... Especially as I'm in the market for a bench drill. I've been using an older version of the Record Power drill stand. I cannot comment on the accuracy of the drill stand itself but I've found my 550w drill somewhat lacking in power to be effective for some tasks (drilling plugs). Also, adjusting the height of the drill is a pain given the weight of the head! It also has a habit of twisting so it is no longer above the clearance hole in the base...

I observe drill presses powering through various drilling chores; the induction motor steadily whirring in the background making sound clean holes in the stock and decide that's what I want!

Then my world gets turned upside down... Affordable drills are riddled with references to "run out" and Bosch make a very appealing drill in the wrong colour. It has features such as electronic speed control, it's lightweight and compact, it is mostly well reviewed (except the cursed occasional reference to run out).

I worry that this impressive (but inadequate - because it is "green") Bosch could behave in the same way as my current drill in the stand - 710watts vs 550 doesn't seem like a massive advantage. Could it be true a lesser powered induction motor (perhaps with the belt vs electronic speed control) be superior?

And then there's Rutlands offering a £100 bench drill with all good reviews... Or should I simply spend more on an Axminster beast?

I'm suffering analysis paralysis... No idea which way to turn!

 

[Bm101]

So is there realy no middle ground between the cheap stuff 2nd hand and somthing like this

https://heass.co.uk/product/meddings-co ... tb-6543210

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Ewan. They simply don't manufacture drills to the standards of previous years. Fact right?
Dunno. I'd guess that the drills you can buy now just weren't available.
Buy an old meddings etc you are buying industrial equipment made to standards that you would need to pay the equivalent for now.
Few grand etc.
Meddings still make drills.
https://www.meddings.co.uk/choosing-a-machine/
My drill took me months to find. Waiting and looking.
Bid on several and lost them.
I think I paid 130 for mine.
Add collection. Time. New tools. I made new handles for the press and had to find the specific taps and dies. I've rewired it all. Paint alone to do properly cost £100. The threads are all BSF and so on so you need to source all that and it's all time and money.
Having said that. Let's say generously I spent £300 I reckon that's about right (no labour lol), I have a drill that will last beyond my lifetime and drill accurately.

The point is, are you willing to gamble.
If you are knowledgeable or hopeful its worth a shout. If you want immediate results maybe not.

 

[El Barto]

I have the cheapest Axminster floor pillar drill and have found it very useable. Not the sturdiest thing in the world but otherwise fine.

 

[chaoticbob]

Cripes! I just had a look at the plate on my Fobco machine's motor and it says 1/3 HP, ie 250W. So I tried some stuff - no problem with a 12.5mm drill in mild steel, no pilot, just straight in, the machine didn't even sigh. Likewise with a blunt (Erbauer) 35mm Forstner in teak.
Makes me wonder what's in a watt - maybe it's not a trustworthy measure of a machine's capability?
Rob.

 

[JimB]

With reference to Custard. There are two types of people who can manage with cheap machinery.
Firstly the skilled who either can get them working as they should or know what is best thrown out.
Secondly, the very lucky. The ones who win raffles and whose horses always win. :wink:

 

[sunnybob]

Its all in the gearing. Just like a push bike. try a hill on too high a gear and youre done.
Thats why older machines have more gears.
people nowadays want automatic machines that dont need adjusting to suit the job in hand.

 

[heimlaga]

In the days when the manufacturer of a machine often was in the same country as the user and when machines normally were sold under the name of the manufacturer any company who didn't bother to make their machines usable were likely to have angry customers coming to the headquarters by the dozen every day telling the boss to go to hell and take his machines with him. Then they would be loosing sales as everybody quickly learned to avoid machines with that name on them.
Hobbyists bought very few new machines. Hobby woodworking was largerly done using hand tools and secondhand machines. Few tools and few machines yet of high quality was the norm of the day.

In our time manufacturing is on the other side of the earth. Importers tend to look for the cheapest machines they can find to maximize their own marigin of profit. To the point that they don't bother if the machine is functional for it's purpose or not. It's purpose is to be sold not to cut wood.
Most buyers of flawed machines can be relied upon that they will either convince themselves that they are unable to learn or buy yet another flawed machine in hope that it will be better. Those who believe that they cannot learn are easy pray for importers selling all sorts of workaround gadgets.
As most people are brought up to believe that new and shiny is always better and as there is an endless market of both cheap machines and all sorts of workaround gadgets many modern day hobbyists buy way more tools and machines than a professional of yesterday and in some cases more than a modern day professional. Many of those tols and machines don't work but who cares because they will only buy more!
Fromm my own experience I can tell that for over 15 years I believed that I lacked the required talent to learn to turn. Then I was in a hurry one day and my Chineese Rexon lathe was out of reach behind other projects so I used a friend's Ejca lathe instead. Suddenly I could turn with decent result! There was nothing wrong with my talent only with te lathe I had been using.
I few months later I was offered an old and beaten up Solberga lathe for free and now I have pretty much rebuilt it. I have also sold the Rexon.

The only part of the market that hasn't been affected too much by this phenomena is the high end industrial part of the market. Altendorf and Griggio and Sedgwick and Martin and such. However those machines are very very very expensive when new and totally out of reach for hobbyist and small scale professional alike.

That is the reson why I buy as much as possible secondhand. As any machines I can afford should be expected to require quite a bit of work to make them functional I have found that I get better machines in relation to cash and work input when I start from well made ones. It is easier in the long run to correct wear and remake missing parts to fit the old design and make new guards than it is to correct bad machining and redesign weak parts of the machine.

I have two drillpresses. An Arboga G2508 floor standing gear driven machine for drilling metal and a Valmet v-belt driven benchtop machine for drilling wood.
The Valmet ended up costion me roughly what a heavy benchtop machine from China would have costed. With the difference that the Valmet is 5 times as heavy and 2 times as powerful and more accurately built.

 

[Bodgers]

Fascinating thread... Especially as I'm in the market for a bench drill. I've been using an older version of the Record Power drill stand. I cannot comment on the accuracy of the drill stand itself but I've found my 550w drill somewhat lacking in power to be effective for some tasks (drilling plugs). Also, adjusting the height of the drill is a pain given the weight of the head! It also has a habit of twisting so it is no longer above the clearance hole in the base...

I observe drill presses powering through various drilling chores; the induction motor steadily whirring in the background making sound clean holes in the stock and decide that's what I want!

Then my world gets turned upside down... Affordable drills are riddled with references to "run out" and Bosch make a very appealing drill in the wrong colour. It has features such as electronic speed control, it's lightweight and compact, it is mostly well reviewed (except the cursed occasional reference to run out).

I worry that this impressive (but inadequate - because it is "green") Bosch could behave in the same way as my current drill in the stand - 710watts vs 550 doesn't seem like a massive advantage. Could it be true a lesser powered induction motor (perhaps with the belt vs electronic speed control) be superior?

And then there's Rutlands offering a £100 bench drill with all good reviews... Or should I simply spend more on an Axminster beast?

I'm suffering analysis paralysis... No idea which way to turn!

I would give the Bosch a try actually. It isn't an obvious choice, but given the issues with the QA on the Axminster drills (and others - I had to send a new small Jet back as it was complete garbage) it is worth a punt.

The Bosch seems to get some good reviews for hobby use, and is probably less hassle to send back then a bigger traditional workshop drill press if it isn't any good.

I see the Woodknight guy on YouTube was sent one by Bosch for review, and he was impressed enough to buy one with his own money.



Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MikeJhn]

Quill run out is a subjective thing, yes you will get quill movement at full extension, but who drills at full extension, if you are drilling wood then any of the normal pillar drills will do, the run out on them will not be noticed in normal drilling.

Ducks for cover.

MIke