Drawback of thick irons

[Sheffield Tony]

Oh dear

I have been using a Cliffie iron and 2 piece cap iron in my Record #6 for a while. Worked very well, but I hadn't noticed that the screw that the lever cap pulls on was not engaged by so many turns of thread as needed - thread in the frog stripped today.

It still works with a skinny Stanley iron and cap iron, so maybe I could leave it as it is. Or maybe somebody makes longer screw ? Undoubtedly an obscure thread. Or maybe I could tap in M8 ? Or find a new frog or even complete plane. Or ... DW says I can have a new #6 with a graphite paint job for Christmas ... what to do ?

 

[RogerP]

Simplest way surely is to make or have made a longer screw.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Or ... DW says I can have a new #6 with a graphite paint job for Christmas ... what to do ?

Go on - you know you want to..................you already have a spare blade and cap iron for it

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[rxh]

Tony,
I think the thread may be 0 BA. If so, I could make a screw for you. What is the overall diameter of the screw and the number of turns per inch?

 

[arnoldmason8]

Hi Tony
A longer screw is available from Workshop Heaven for £2.40 ( Look under Clifton plane irons ).
Regards--------Arnold

 

[Vann]

I think the thread may be 0 BA.

The thread - according to the late David Leach's site - is 9/32" 24tpi.

Personally, I don't believe it's a good idea to fit both a thicker iron and thicker cap-iron to an old Record or Stanley - for exactly the reason the OP has found. If your existing iron is in reasonable nick (especially if it's good olde steel/laminated) then a thicker cap-iron will be sufficient to stiffen it and dampen vibration. If the original iron is knackered then a thicker iron is an option, but you start to run into problems, like needing to file open the mouth (especially on older planes), and needing an extended yoke (Y-lever).

Fitting both is expensive, often problematic, and probably over-kill.

And the best design of thicker cap-iron out there is the two-piece (but you have to change your technique when removing and reinstalling the irons so the deflector doesn't fall off #-o ).

My 2d worth...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[matthewwh]

Ray Iles RI021S and RI023S irons are designed to be a drop in fit for older planes with no adjustments required, including the very early U.S. made Stanleys without the raised annulus under the front knob, which usually have very thin irons.

Tony, if you could measure the overall length your lever cap screw for me I'll see if I have anything slightly longer.

Don't let either of the above deter you from seizing the opportunity to own a Clifton though, if you've already got the thumbs up you're 90% of the way there!

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I've just measured it, and David Leach is quite right. 9/32" 24tpi, and the original one is 1" long.

This plane came from ebay; it is a reasonably old one with solid looking frog, but not old enough to have the spinny bit on the lateral lever. It has been inexpertly "restored" before I got it with a coat of not quite the right shade of blue paint, the handles sanded over enthusiastically so that the rear handle is visibly a bit slimmer than normal, then re-varnished. It came with Stanley irons which are the thinnest I've seen - assembled the total thickness of cutting iron + cap iron is just about 3.8mm. Which is why I replaced them. I suspect that maybe the thread in the frog has been worn for some time, and maybe that's why such a thin iron was in there in the firat place - it needs to be nearly bottomed out to be secure. I reckon a longer screw - 1 1/8" long say - might give it a bit more life, but it is near beyond repair; to re-tap it a larger size would mean the lever cap would not fit without modifying that too. I do use a local engineering company that can fit inserts to repair threads, but probably not in 9/32" 24tpi, and probably not for less than a another plane off ebay.

Trouble is, despite all its faults, it was the one I used most often. Seemed to work better than the others for reasons I can't really fathom.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The frog is cream crackered - take a chance and stick the screw in with JB weld or similar. Nothing to lose.

 

[Corneel]

In this case I would put a metric insert in that frog, so you have plenty of choice for screws.

 

[matthewwh]

Hmm, Clifton are an inch (measured from under the head) and Quangsheng are a smidge shorter so no dice there.

It looks like a helicoil or JB Weld are the only options.

 

[Vann]

It looks like a helicoil or JB Weld are the only options.

I bought a Record 06ss a while back - it had a Stanley frog, which I've since changed-out for a Record frog.

If you want the Stanley frog it's yours for the cost of postage - though it's a long way to send it. I'm at work at present, but I'll check it out and give you a postage cost when I get home - if you want to go down that road. You'll need to re-seat the frog, but that's no biggie.

Let me know.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

If you want the Stanley frog it's yours for the cost of postage - though it's a long way to send it. I'm at work at present, but I'll check it out and give you a postage cost when I get home - if you want to go down that road.

Thanks for the offer, I think I've found a suitable frog which is a bit closer ... come to think of it, it might be quite difficult to find one much further away :lol: Thanks very much though.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

In the post yesterday arrived a replacement frog, of similar vintage to the original one. A big thanks to bugbear !

I have popped it in, and refitted the thin Stanley iron that came with the plane, but with the Clifton 2 piece cap iron, as per Vann's recommendation. I checked carefully this time that there is a more reasonable length of thread engaged. It seems to work just fine. Now, someone mentioned needing to re-seat the frog ... is that something I should expect to do ? I just screwed it down and tried it as is; my inclination is to leave well alone.

Thanks again, in particular to bugbear, but also to everyone for the advice.

 

[bugbear]

I had a Record #4 1/2 with a broken casting... I'd already used the blade in another tool.

Someone else had the tote fixing screw ages ago...

Tony seemed a worthy destination for the frog.

BugBear

 

[Vann]

Now, someone mentioned needing to re-seat the frog ... is that something I should expect to do ? I just screwed it down and tried it as is; my inclination is to leave well alone.

With the frog not screwed down (i.e. with screws removed) if you can slightly rock the frog on it's seat, then it should be re-seated. If not, it's good to go.

Of course, even if it is slightly out, but plane cuts just fine, you can just use it as is.

Cheers, Vann.