Dovetails? I can take them or leave them.

[FogggyTown]

It may be considered by some to be sacriledge but I have never had any great desire to make dovetail joints. Personally, I visually prefer a nice box or finger joint. And modern glues will make even a mitre joint strong enough these days.

I know there are many who consider the ability to make a hand-made dovetail to be one of woodworking's rights of passage, and I do envy those who have the patience and skill to make them. I just don't feel the need.

Anyway, what's so difficult about dovetails?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxIgNel0H_I

 

[woodbloke]

Had you been living in the Far East a couple of hundred years ago, you might have been very grateful for dovetails and other mechanical joints...all Chinese furniture was held together by purely mechanical means, dovetails, sliding dovetails, pegged m/t's etc as the glue then available wasn't suitable for hot and humid conditions such as you might find in the Orient. The dovetail as we know it today is primarily a mechanical joint that resists pull in one direction (that's why it was developed :wink: ) and the advent of modern glues has made an already excellent means of joining two bits of wood together even better. Thus, a finger joint by it's very nature will not resist mechanical pull and relies solely on the glue and mating surfaces to be effective, get one or both of them out and the joint ceases to be anything but good - Rob

 

[PerranOak]

I do wonder about that.

Frankly, I love the look of dovetails and I can't help believing that they will last longer in environments with continual stress. I've never had much faith in glues, per se.

However, dovetailing with anything more than three tails (notwithstanding the use of a jig) seems like a bit of a trial!

 

[MickCheese]

Wow, that link is pretty impressive!

Mick

 

[dicktimber]

That chap should be demonstrating at the shows....
I watched a chap demonstrate a veg grater that diced onions shredded cabbage, made chips.........
Grated my bloody fingers off first time I used it......

Bought a ba mix for frothy coffee.....different show...different demonstrator...after trying to whip 20 plus cups of cold milk into froth, I threw it in the drawer, where it remains today.........

Bought a vice, demonstrated at another show....that was invented by the Egyptians and is in the London museum... should have kept it there.....excellent demonstration....never used it......

Bought a bread maker.......
best thing I ever bought...surprise surprise...no demonstrator present.
You can all come round for toast!

AS for the video
The demonstrator said he was using pine.
Don't believe him.......It was Lurpac Butter from Asda!

Mike

 

[DaveL]

That chap should be demonstrating at the shows....

Rob Cosman does demonstrate at shows, he is a very friendly chap and will answer questions if you care to ask. 8)

 

[BradNaylor]

Three cheers for this Cosman bloke!

=D> =D> =D>

He seems to understand that the most important things for a pro woodworker are precision and speed

I had already come to the conclusion that for the relatively small number of dovetails I do I'm better off doing them by hand rather than setting up a jig. This video reconfirms it.

Even at 10 minutes a joint it would only take a couple of hours to do a chest of drawers. It can take that long to set up a Leigh jig and router!

It is also nice seeing him demystify the cutting of dovetails. He is obviously extremely good at it but it is not that difficult!

I'm going to have to try it his way. I've always been a 'pins first' kind of guy.

Are there any vids on YouTube of him doing lapped dovetails?

What about secret mitred dovetails?

:wink:

Brad

 

[Anonymous]

Anyway, what's so difficult about dovetails?

Nothing.
I have always found them very easy to cut witha half decent DT saw and a few chisels

 

[PerranOak]

What about secret mitred dovetails?

Argh! They are an abomination. All the skill and effort of making a close-fitting dovetail and it ends up looking like a mitred joint on a B&Q TV cabinet!

 

[Grinding One]

AS for the video
The demonstrator said he was using pine.
Don't believe him.......It was Lurpac Butter from Asda!

Mike

They never use wood you could find in a wood lot,next time your at a show let them use a piece you`ve brought with you....watch the peoples eyes then light up.
I have had the same experience,buy at the show and when you get home it all goes south on you,whatever happen on the way home??

 

[Digit]

Mitered dovetails are a wonderful exercise in woodworking skills. Then they vanish into the woodwork and nobody else even knows they are there!

Roy.

 

[Doctor]

Even at 10 minutes a joint it would only take a couple of hours to do a chest of drawers. It can take that long to set up a Leigh jig and router!

Brad

2hrs to set up a jig and a router, if you had said 10 minutes I would still have thought you were exaggerating.
Even the lad in our shop can set it up in less than 10 minutes :shock:

 

[PerranOak]

Mitered dovetails are a wonderful exercise in woodworking skills. Then they vanish into the woodwork and nobody else even knows they are there!

Roy.

Exactly!

 

[Chems]

Even at 10 minutes a joint it would only take a couple of hours to do a chest of drawers. It can take that long to set up a Leigh jig and router!

Brad

2hrs to set up a jig and a router, if you had said 10 minutes I would still have thought you were exaggerating.
Even the lad in our shop can set it up in less than 10 minutes :shock:

Yes thats a little bit to much exaggeration. I bought a Leigh, whole thread about it on here. Took me ages to get it all cutting perfectly at first. But now I know how to use it it takes seconds to set it up and get cutting.

 

[BradNaylor]

Even at 10 minutes a joint it would only take a couple of hours to do a chest of drawers. It can take that long to set up a Leigh jig and router!

Brad

2hrs to set up a jig and a router, if you had said 10 minutes I would still have thought you were exaggerating.
Even the lad in our shop can set it up in less than 10 minutes :shock:

OK, so it was a slight exaggeration for effect! The point remains, however.

When I employed half a dozen lads making pine furniture we had a Leigh jig set up permenantly with its own router set to a standard depth of cut as all drawer sides were machined to the same thickness. The only adjustment neccessary was for the spacing of the fingers and changing the cutter every few weeks.

Now however, I use the thing so rarely it's a bloody nuisance. I've got to set up a router with the correct guide bush, 8mm collet and cutter. I've got to get the jig out and bolt it to my bench. I've got to turn the workshop upside down looking for the silly square ended screwdriver thingy for adjusting the fingers. I invariably find that one or more of the finger grub screws has inexplicably lost its thread through inactivity and has to be replaced. I then have to set the depth of the router cutter and machine several test pieces until I get the fit just right.

By this point I am starting to lose the will to live.

Cutting the joints by hand meanwhile, is strangely theraputic.

Sure, if you've got ten or twenty drawers to make, the jig wins hands down; but if you only need one or two every now and then there is a strong case for doing them by hand.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Chems]

I can see your point, if your not using it all the time and had to go what I went through each time you set up and remind yourself how to use it its going to take time. I'm thinking of leaving one router set up permanently as Focus are selling off the one I use for £10.

 

[Paul.V]

i watched that video with interest yesterday.

so tonight i thought i would have a go, by hand, never having done one before.

oh dear

i'll post a pick tomorrow, its not pretty

i learnt that i need a better hand saw, one of those rope saws (coping saw?) and sharper chisels

 

[Aled Dafis]

Paul, don't feel too bad about your first attempt, Rob Cosman is VERY GOOD, and VERY QUICK. I watched him at the Axminster show a few years ago doing a five minute dovetail, and boy he's good!!!

He used to spend half an hour after work every day just practising his dovetailing, so it must be true that practice really does make perfect.

Cheers

Aled

 

[dicktimber]

I know the leigh jig is the best.....
but what about the trend one with the carbon fingers you click in and out?
Does anyone own one, and how does it perform?

Mike

 

[Chems]

Is that the DC400? That has variable fingers just like the leigh. If it can do tails and pins in one pass its just as good as the Leigh Super Jigs.