Dovetail saw

[PerranOak]

So, I want to cut dovetails by hand but which saw?

I can run (well, it's a pressie really!) to the high end.

Some are not set to rip, some have too few teeth.

I can't get on with pull saws - so that's all those Japanese ones out!

Which one should I buy ... well, "have bought"?

Nice position to be in, huh?!

Please help.

 

[xy mosian]

Strange I have an oldish Sorby which needs sharpening and setting, and I have been asking myself what the difference is between a Tenon saw and a Dovetail saw.

The only thing I have come up with is the likely size of the joint. I my humble opinion both do most of their work as rip saws. The tenon saw, 14", I have just jigged up is set at 12 tpi. Perhaps a bit fine for chunky table legs but it cuts nice and quickly so I'll put up with it until it upsets me.

Now the sorby is around 18tpi at about 10", so I think I'll set that up as a rip saw and call it a dovetail.

This link http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=DS gives a very clear description of 'Lie Neilson' thoughts, and as they are generally regarded as knowing what they are talking about I'll side with them.

xy

 

[joiner_sim]

When I did some dovetails for the first time, which you can find on the Projects page on my website.... I used a disposable IRWIN Fine Cut Tennon Saw, and it was pretty good to use. I cut the bits out with an Eclipse coping saw and, to finish of chiseled straight down.

 

[matthewwh]

The Pax 1776 saws are popular and often recommended by the top teachers in the country.

I've recently commissioned some large 14" 1776 tenon saws with 3-1/2" deep blades and closed handles to expand the range, they arrived last week so should be up on the website shortly.

 

[MikeG.]

For years I have used a fine tenon saw for dovetails, but have taken to using a Pax Gent's saw over the last couple of years. The rip-set teeth make cutting with the gran that little bit easier, andyet the are so fine that the kerf is fine and accurate, and the cut nice and clean. Cheap as chips, too.

Mike

 

[Karl]

I use a LN straight handled saw, like this one.

The Veritas offering always gets good acclaim, although I don't think it compares to the LN I use.

I'd also be interested to see how the LN progressive pitch dovetail sawperforms.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Paul Chapman]

I'd also be interested to see how the LN progressive pitch dovetail sawperforms.

If money's no object, the new Rob Cosman dovetail saw is worth considering. It also has progressive teeth. I tried it out at the West Dean Hand Tool Event and was very impressed. It's quite different from the other top end saws in its weight and balance. It's quite heavy and a bit longer and I thought it felt very nice.

However, the Veritas dovetail saw can't be beaten on value for money and it cuts as good as any.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[TobyB]

I had very poor results learning to cut dovetails with a gents saw ... bought the veritas dovetail saw and acceptable results on first outing ... very pleased with it

 

[bugbear]

So, I want to cut dovetails by hand but which saw?

I can run (well, it's a pressie really!) to the high end.

Some are not set to rip, some have too few teeth.

I can't get on with pull saws - so that's all those Japanese ones out!

Which one should I buy ... well, "have bought"?

Nice position to be in, huh?!

Please help.

I've never seen a credible review of the present "top end" saws which found any major difference between them that wasn't small enough to be put down to personal preference.

As such, if you simply want a saw that will allow you to cut dovetails, I'd get the LV, simply because it's the cheapest; if you have a larger budget, get the one you like the look of.

Fromm reading many, MANY reviews, they all work pretty well.

BugBear

 

[patl]

I may not be the right person to comment, not having a dovetail saw I'm entirely happy with at the moment, which rules out the pax one, I'm not particularly happy with it.
Based on my tenon saws, I'd probably give Aria a try although I'm drawn to the Veritas one, just to see what its like.
I've also heard a lot of good words about the gramercy DT saw but I'm not sure whather its available over here anywhere.
I guess there's always wenzloff, if you can persuade them to talk to you. I never did, after being on the waiting list for a year, I finally got a reply to my mails only for it to go all quiet again, so I've given up on those.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I guess there's always wenzloff, if you can persuade them to talk to you. I never did, after being on the waiting list for a year, I finally got a reply to my mails only for it to go all quiet again, so I've given up on those.

I have two of Mike Wenzloff's saws. Mike's is a small outfit of him and two of his sons. His saws are so sought after that he's been dealing with a backlog of 4,000 saws :shock:

I had to wait well over a year for mine but, for me, it was well worth it - they are fabulous They probably cut no better than other top-end saws but if you are passionate about hand tools it's sometimes worth the wait to get what you really want.

If you've not cancelled your order, Mike will eventually get around to it and, when he starts making your saw, you will find his service and attention to detail is excellent. However, the waiting can be frustrating.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[PerranOak]

Thanks all.

I have cut dovetails by hand with varying results. Most of the errors are from lack of skill but some are the tool ... honest!

I find that the kerf on my tenon saw is half the width of the tail I'm cutting so that's out. The saw I have is a very cheap and nasty one. It looks like a straight handled dovetail saw but leaves "muck" on the outside of the bottom of the cut. It's also a bit wobbly. When it cuts, it "clogs". I also get this odd "skating over the surface" feeling when I rip with a crosscut saw so I assume it's the set of the teeth.

Therefore, I fancy a more stable one with small teeth and set to rip. Any errors then are 100% me!

Another thing is the handle. When using the straight handle on my current one, I find that I don't like the limp-wristed angle you have to hold it at. However, I wonder if that is done on purpose so that, as may be the case with a "proper" grip, you don't push it through too firmly? I am a bit heavy-handed at times!

 

[Benchwayze]

I got this from Mike Wenzloff. It wasn't exactly inexpensive, and it took an age to get it. But it was worth the wait. I never had a better one. (I am having to give up serious woodwork, but this tool isn't going to be sold. I think this one is a keeper for the future woodworkers along my line!

But I'd say a decent Gent's saw, properly sharpened and set
John would do you well, for a medium priced saw.
Best of luck.
regards John

 

[woodbloke]

I'd also be interested to see how the LN progressive pitch dovetail sawperforms.

If money's no object, the new Rob Cosman dovetail saw is worth considering. It also has progressive teeth. I tried it out at the West Dean Hand Tool Event and was very impressed. It's quite different from the other top end saws in its weight and balance. It's quite heavy and a bit longer and I thought it felt very nice.

However, the Veritas dovetail saw can't be beaten on value for money and it cuts as good as any.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I'll second what Paul has said. RC's saw is impressive (but I don't like the plasticki handle) and at around £170 doesn't represent good value IMO. However, by far the best value saw we used at West Dean has to be the new Veritas and at a tad over £40 it simply can't be beaten... and performs as well as any of the rest of them. Winner! - Rob

 

[PerranOak]

However, by far the best value saw we used at West Dean has to be the new Veritas and at a tad over £40 it simply can't be beaten... and performs as well as any of the rest of them. Winner! - Rob

... but which is the best!?

I don't fancy waiting for months though.

 

[woodbloke]

... but which is the best!?

I don't fancy waiting for months though.

Try before you buy and you'll soon see which one is best for you. It's all very subjective and what suits one may not suit somebody else. I like LN saws, but I also have a LV...both are different, but I tend to pick up the LN one first. Best though, is anything from Oregon :wink: - Rob

 

[patl]

If you've not cancelled your order, Mike will eventually get around to it and, when he starts making your saw, you will find his service and attention to detail is excellent. However, the waiting can be frustrating.

Paul

Nope, the order isn't cancelled, but we were talking about handles 6-12 months ago, then he went silent and I haven't heard anything since despite a couple of emails. I figure he's simply given up on made to order and is just focussing on the saws he makes for thebestthings.com. Fair enough, I guess its less effort. I'd have appreciated an email though

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you've not cancelled your order, Mike will eventually get around to it and, when he starts making your saw, you will find his service and attention to detail is excellent. However, the waiting can be frustrating.

Paul

Nope, the order isn't cancelled, but we were talking about handles 6-12 months ago, then he went silent and I haven't heard anything since despite a couple of emails. I figure he's simply given up on made to order and is just focussing on the saws he makes for thebestthings.com. Fair enough, I guess its less effort. I'd have appreciated an email though

If you haven't cancelled, then I'm sure he hasn't given up on you. It's probably a question of whether to spend all day answering emails or to get on making saws and clearing the backlog. Once you get to the top of the list, you'll hear from him, I'm sure.

I'm sure it will be worth the wait. Here are mine, a rip-cut dovetail saw and matching cross-cut

Handles in figured Bubinga

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[patl]

beautiful saws, I'm beginning to hate you :wink: The reason I'm not hopeful is that I've just gone back through the mail trail, the last I heard from him was that he was going to make up an invoice. That was 9 months ago, which was about a year after going onto the waiting list. So I think I've probably dropped off the list for some reason, probably lucky given how much the exchange rate has moved in the last 9 months...

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you read what Mike says on his website about the decision to stop accepting new custom orders and concentrating on clearing the backlog, your order should still be in the system http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/index.html

For your own peace of mind, however, I'd drop him an occasional email just to make sure - but don't worry unduly if you don't get replies. He will get around to you eventually and be in touch to confirm all the details before starting the saw. And when you eventually get it I'm sure you'll be delighted.

Cheers :wink:

Paul