Does the method make a difference???

[Michelle_K]

See I do get alright shavings the blade just does not stay sharp for very long. This is a piece of wood (unsure what it is) that I am trying to plane down thin enough to cut a circle out of. I unsuccessfully attempted this yesterday with the same wood which was 2mm thick and as you can see it broke quite badly. I want the wood for my rosette channel. The circle cutter I am using is only really designed to score the wood but I tried to cut all the way through the wood using this and an Stanley knife which did not go so well. So this time I am going to get the wood as thin as I can and try again.
The channel as you can see on the guitar top is not ideal it's not flat. I need a router plane. I have seen people use old Allen keys to make router plane blades and I am thinking about giving it a try. I am hoping I don't have to temper the blade or anything after filing it as that's not an option. I have searched around for cheap router planes but they seem to be quite pricey. Axminister had one for £11 but they don't stock it anymore even though it's still on their site.
This would be a job for the stew Mac Dremel circle cutting jig but that is a whole other case of pricey! Again I have seen people make a similar thing out of Perspex. I mean a Dremel base and circle cutter. But I tried cutting up so Perspex with a b and q coping saw and it did not go so well so I don't think I'd be able to knock one up. It amazes me what people are able to make themselves. Tool and jig making is such a great skill to have.

 

[novocaine]

your rossette looks to have broken along the grain. it's less to do with the thickness you've planed it to and more to do with the type of wood you are using. it's also the reason that a lot of rossette are cut in separate pieces. you need a really tight grained wood to do what you are trying there, you may get away with cutting oversize the sanding to final dimension but you are asking a lot from the wood.

your plane looks plenty sharp enough from those shavings, if it's blunting quickly there are a few things it may be.
1. the bevel angle is to shallow.
2. single bevel instead of a micro bevel
these are both to do with not having enough material behind the cutting edge to support it and easy to remedy with a bit of sharpening technique.
3. cap iron isn't set right
again easy to correct
4. to big of a cut for the type of wood.

other thing to try is to sneak up on the finished internal dimension with a number of cuts, take a cut 5-10mm from the finished thickness then taken a further couple of passes heading towards your final diameter, with the last cuts being a mil or less, you will stress the work less and the break out due to the kerf of the blade will have somewhere to go.

 

[AJB Temple]

Michelle, there are suppliers for musical instruments that will supply suitable thicknessed high quality timber for soundboards and resonance purposes. Check online - you will not get this stuff from ordinary timber merchants at economical price/quantity. Google sound woods (can be one or 2 words in your searches) and tone woods. Don't be put off by needing to import it. If you have some storage place it is worth building up carefully stored stocks of sitka spruce, engleman spruce, indian rosewood ebony, mahogany, maple etc. I bought a lot of material several years ago and am still working my way through it. Some is now virtually unobtainable, like Brazilian rosewood for example. Also worth sourcing inlay materials such as abalone etc when you find stocks at sensible prices.

 

[Graham Orm]

You can't file an Allen key it's hardened, you'd have to grind it and at the same time be careful not to anneal it, all without losing a finger. Here's how to make a cheap and effective router plane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_2a_FwjAgk

 

[Jacob]

You can make a very primitive mini router plane by putting a screw into a block of wood and honing up the flat head of the screw to make a sharp edge. Best with an old steel screw probably - I imagine modern screws might be too soft/hard or something but that's just a guess.
It'd double up as a cutting gauge too.

 

[Michelle_K]

I don't use a micro bevel just a single 30 degree bevel. Is that wrong? Thank you for all of the advice everyone

 

[Jacob]

I don't use a micro bevel just a single 30 degree bevel. Is that wrong? Thank you for all of the advice everyone

It's quicker and easier if you back off material at a bit less than 30 with a coarse grit and then just do the edge at 30 - AKA a "micro bevel" in modern sharpening parlance! You can touch up the edge several times before you need to take off any more with a coarse grit.

 

[MusicMan]

You can make a very primitive mini router plane by putting a screw into a block of wood and honing up the flat head of the screw to make a sharp edge. Best with an old steel screw probably - I imagine modern screws might be too soft/hard or something but that's just a guess.
It'd double up as a cutting gauge too.

That's neat. Micro-adjustable too (one-way at least). Useful trick.

Keith

 

[Roughcut]

A couple of years ago I was swayed to buy a thicker plane iron and chip breaker because I'd read somewhere it was better.
It wasn't.
I needn't of bothered as it performed no better than the original Stanley and there was nothing wrong with the Stanley in the first place.
The problem was that I believed the hype!

 

[Kalimna]

I like Jacobs suggestion of a hone screw head used as the cutter in a sort of router plane. I can't imagine a traditional router plane would be at all straightforward to use in a rosette channel - trying to get a flat edge around the radius of the channel.
However, I have used quite successfully the circle cutter jig included in one of the Dremel kits. It isn't fancy and not easy to accurately adjust, but it works. The StewMac device would probably pay for itself in a production environment outside of a hobby.
Regarding your bits-of-wood rosette, if the bits make up a circle (at least that arc of a circle visible and not covered by the fretboard), then it should still work nicely. Just glue it up and plane back when cured.
One of the hardest things I found starting to make guitars (and I am very, very much the beginner here) was knowing what to buy, and being seduced by retailers such as StewMac. You *can* make almost all of the tools/jigs yourself, after all the old chaps in Spain did (though they had plenty of time, an apprentice and no option!), but it is so much easier to buy them if you can.
If you truly have an aversion to making jigs, then you will find some aspects of your acoustic build rather tricky, or you will have to buy them. How do you intend to attach the neck? Arch the plates? Cut the fret slots? Cut, shape and slot the bridge? If a classical, drill the tuning peg holes?
I wish you luck, and there are plenty of folk on here who have a lot of experience willing to hand out.

Adam

 

[Jelly]

The channel as you can see on the guitar top is not ideal it's not flat. I need a router plane. I have seen people use old Allen keys to make router plane blades and I am thinking about giving it a try. I am hoping I don't have to temper the blade or anything after filing it as that's not an option.

As already mentioned, you'd have to grind an Allen key to make a router iron (doable, but not "easy" as Grinding operations go)...

However, you already own the perfect router plane blade and don't know it... Your wood chisels!

I have an old "old woman's tooth" router plane which is made of two pieces of wood beveled at an angle just slightly greater than the bevel angle of the Iron, with the piece which contacts the front acting as the bed to hold the Iron at the desired angle and the piece contacting the back of the Iron rebated to fit snuggly. The two bits of wood are just screwed together clamping round it.

In mine the iron is the end of an old firmer chisel with the tang cut off, but that's not necessary for it to work (obviously it's a compromise as the handle of the chisel will stick up, and you'd have to take it in and out of the body as required).

I'll try to post a diagram of it, as you could use two blocks of wood and two screws to make a body which would clamp one of your chisels for use as a router, and its easily made with just a plane, a fine saw and a chisel.

Edit:
There is a simpler method still to make a chisel into a router plane, albeit less durable for repeat use Courtesy of Paul Sellers.

Also, with regards to sharpening methods, different ones produce different results when viewed under a microscope; but for almost all practical purposes, how repeatably you make the sharpening motions and how fine a final abrasive you use will make so much more of a difference than the type of abrasive used that it's scarcely worth worrying about. Just pick a method of sharpening and if it works (and yours does appear to) then stick to it.

There is a phenomenal amount of bunkum and opinions disguised as fact going round about sharpening, seen as your method works for you, don't get drawn into it, or worry about spending lots of money to get something "better".

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Consider - rosettes are often made of "tiles" - it doesn't need to be in one piece - no one will know (except us ).
Don't know what style of circle cutter you have, but something simple can be made with an iced lolly stick with a scalpel/craft_knife blade sticking through. Use multiple passes, deepening the cut with gentle taps (always always checking you haven't made too much blade stick out.) Just need inside and outside circumferences scored to depth (or a merest smudge beyond.)
Then pare/scrape to depth. Can do this by (with a screw either side) securing a chisel tipped scalpel/craft_knife blade to a squared off noggin of wood and drawing it around the channel - starting shallow and advancing the blade with gentle taps as when scoring.

[edit] ooh - if you have shellac or sanding sealer (same thing) a thin coat will both protect the top while you are working, and make it a little easier to get crispy results when cutting

 

[Benchwayze]

Yes. Buy some wood instead. But be sure to use it, as soon as it's ready. Otherwise you will be stuck with planks of lovely timber you can't use, and taking up space, because, like me, you are too old, and slow to make all those things you needed years ago! :mrgreen:

 

[Benchwayze]

The channel as you can see on the guitar top is not ideal it's not flat. I need a router plane. I have seen people use old Allen keys to make router plane blades and I am thinking about giving it a try. I am hoping I don't have to temper the blade or anything after filing it as that's not an option.

Edit:

There is a phenomenal amount of bunkum and opinions disguised as fact going round about sharpening, seen as your method works for you, don't get drawn into it, or worry about spending lots of money to get something "better".

There's a few negative waves need knocking off there Jelly! :lol: :lol: :lol: