Does our education system make people want to be spoonfed?

[cjp]

If I can bring a perspective from a "newbie". I don't think people always come to forums just seeking information, often times they actually want to strike up a conversation and talk to people about a subject that interests them.

This is also how you learn to trust a forum and it's members. Sure I can search a 1000 forums on the internet, and without starting a single topic find a 1000 answers (probably all different). But how can I be sure that information is any good? Often times the sheer amount of information you can find makes it less useful. So instead I would post a message, see what reaction it gets -that way I could gauge the community. But it's inevitable that the questions a newbie will ask will be those that the more experienced have seen many times before.

I think as already suggested politely pointing to previous posts where appropriate is the right way to go - that way you make the member feel welcome and also leave the door open for any new points of view others may wish to bring to the topic.

At the end of the day -in any forum- if such newbie questions were not answered, you would never get any new members and the community would stall. And if those who have been here a while didn't re-tread old ground once in a while, then it wouldn't be much of forum - more of just a reference wiki.

Frankly, I'm not sure if the topics I have created are that new or not but the responses I've received have been great so that makes me stay here - and hopefully pass any knowledge I gain onto others.

Charlie

 

[Dibs-h]

For every one "stupid" question you can be sure that there are more people out there who also want to hear the answer, but were too shy to ask.
Newbies reading this - don't be put off.

On the money!

Yes newbies can hit the search button or Google it to death - but it isn't always that as the sheer nbr of responses can be over-whelming and sometimes a bit of guidance is required.

 

[RogerS]

For every one "stupid" question you can be sure that there are more people out there who also want to hear the answer, but were too shy to ask.
Newbies reading this - don't be put off.

On the money!

Yes newbies can hit the search button or Google it to death - but it isn't always that as the sheer nbr of responses can be over-whelming and sometimes a bit of guidance is required.

No - but to ask a question, say, asking what the differences are between two saws from the same manufacturer? Surely it is not unreasonable to expect them to at least look at the manufacturers literature? Then maybe come back with a question seeking clarification.

 

[Alf]

Roger, and others, just walk on by. You can't put some sort of limit on what level of question someone asks, or else people stop feeling they can ask at all. I'd bet everyone on this board has asked a newbie question at some point - mine was where to get timber (Back in the days of Yahoo Clubs - does anyone even remember them?) If you feel in the mood to point the newbie in the right direction, do so. If you don't, move on; someone else will take pity and answer it. In six months or a year, that newbie might know the answer to a question you have. If they never asked their "silly" question, they may never have posted, and then they might never post to answer your question either. You just have to take the "Oh crivens, not again" with the "Wow, I learnt a lot from that post" in a philosophical manner. In the long term you may miss out on the former if you don't tolerate the latter.

 

[big soft moose]

No - but to ask a question, say, asking what the differences are between two saws from the same manufacturer? Surely it is not unreasonable to expect them to at least look at the manufacturers literature? Then maybe come back with a question seeking clarification.

ironically the search function reveals that rogers first post way back in february 04 was

. I'm looking for a planer/thicknesser. Is the 22-560 such a beast?

Am I correct in saying that the 22-565 is the same machine as the 22-560 but comes with a stand?

so by your own logic roger why didnt you just look at the manufactuers literature/website for an answer to your questions rather than asking them on the boards ?

 

[Jacob]

No - but to ask a question, say, asking what the differences are between two saws from the same manufacturer? Surely it is not unreasonable to expect them to at least look at the manufacturers literature? Then maybe come back with a question seeking clarification.

ironically the search function reveals that rogers first post way back in february 04 was

. I'm looking for a planer/thicknesser. Is the 22-560 such a beast?

Am I correct in saying that the 22-565 is the same machine as the 22-560 but comes with a stand?

so by your own logic roger why didn't you just look at the manufacturers literature/website for an answer to your questions rather than asking them on the boards ?

:lol: :lol:

BTW What is a 22-560/565?

 

[Lons]

If I can bring a perspective from a "newbie". I don't think people always come to forums just seeking information, often times they actually want to strike up a conversation and talk to people about a subject that interests them.

This is also how you learn to trust a forum and it's members. Sure I can search a 1000 forums on the internet, and without starting a single topic find a 1000 answers (probably all different). But how can I be sure that information is any good? Often times the sheer amount of information you can find makes it less useful. So instead I would post a message, see what reaction it gets -that way I could gauge the community. But it's inevitable that the questions a newbie will ask will be those that the more experienced have seen many times before.

I think as already suggested politely pointing to previous posts where appropriate is the right way to go - that way you make the member feel welcome and also leave the door open for any new points of view others may wish to bring to the topic.

At the end of the day -in any forum- if such newbie questions were not answered, you would never get any new members and the community would stall. And if those who have been here a while didn't re-tread old ground once in a while, then it wouldn't be much of forum - more of just a reference wiki.

Frankly, I'm not sure if the topics I have created are that new or not but the responses I've received have been great so that makes me stay here - and hopefully pass any knowledge I gain onto others.

Charlie

Very good points Charlie and it's made me think again.

I take back any of the comments I made, especially "laziness" which was probably harsh.

I still think that the newbie should do the searches before posting though - even if the question remains the same.

cheers

Bob

 

[big soft moose]

No - but to ask a question, say, asking what the differences are between two saws from the same manufacturer? Surely it is not unreasonable to expect them to at least look at the manufacturers literature? Then maybe come back with a question seeking clarification.

ironically the search function reveals that rogers first post way back in february 04 was

. I'm looking for a planer/thicknesser. Is the 22-560 such a beast?

Am I correct in saying that the 22-565 is the same machine as the 22-560 but comes with a stand?

so by your own logic roger why didn't you just look at the manufacturers literature/website for an answer to your questions rather than asking them on the boards ?

:lol: :lol:

BTW What is a 22-560/565?

its a delta portable thicknesser

 

[RogerS]

No - but to ask a question, say, asking what the differences are between two saws from the same manufacturer? Surely it is not unreasonable to expect them to at least look at the manufacturers literature? Then maybe come back with a question seeking clarification.

ironically the search function reveals that rogers first post way back in february 04 was

. I'm looking for a planer/thicknesser. Is the 22-560 such a beast?

Am I correct in saying that the 22-565 is the same machine as the 22-560 but comes with a stand?

so by your own logic roger why didnt you just look at the manufactuers literature/website for an answer to your questions rather than asking them on the boards ?

Very good. But wait just a minute. I did not say 'I'm looking for a planer/thicknesser'. It is quite clear that I had done some research but that I was after clarification. And that is my point.

Really..it's not too much to ask that people do some basic research first...or as my title says...has our education system done away with the concept of research?

 

[big soft moose]

No - but to ask a question, say, asking what the differences are between two saws from the same manufacturer? Surely it is not unreasonable to expect them to at least look at the manufacturers literature? Then maybe come back with a question seeking clarification.

ironically the search function reveals that rogers first post way back in february 04 was

. I'm looking for a planer/thicknesser. Is the 22-560 such a beast?

Am I correct in saying that the 22-565 is the same machine as the 22-560 but comes with a stand?

so by your own logic roger why didnt you just look at the manufactuers literature/website for an answer to your questions rather than asking them on the boards ?

Very good. But wait just a minute. I did not say 'I'm looking for a planer/thicknesser'. It is quite clear that I had done some research but that I was after clarification. And that is my point.

Really..it's not too much to ask that people do some basic research first...or as my title says...has our education system done away with the concept of research?

yeah but you didnt know whether it was a planer thicknesser or not - so presumably a"little basic research" would have included finding out the difference between a planer, a thicknesser, or a planer thicknesser

the point being that people who are new to this stuff dont necessarily know the difference between different machines and therefore it is reasonable that they should ask for information which we might consider to be "basic" but which to a newbie might be baffling

 

[RogerS]

No. You're missing the point.

For starters, in the example you gave (and you must be so bored to trawl through all my posts to find one to back up your argument) there is a world of difference between

"Can anyone recommend a planer-thicknesser' (ie ZERO reearch)

and

asking for clarification on research already carried out.

The emphasis is on the word ZERO and I have put it in capital letters for you.

 

[misterfish]

Although I don't agree with your reaction to such basic questioning by newbies, but I do agree with the original assertion aboutnot doing research.

SWMBO was a primary school teacher who was complemented on her teaching methodology encouraging the children to find out by research and experimenting. Then came the 'central' control where no flair or imagination by teachers was required or encouraged - in fact such methods were criticised; the requirement change to having 'beige' teachers with no individuality that just followed the central dictat.

This dumming down seems to have dulled both the interest and necessary skills to able to research matters.

Misterfish

 

[studders]

I have no gripe with supposedly 'simple' questions as such. Most questions appear simple when you already know the answer.
I do get irritated when it's obvious that the asker has done zip to try to find any information at all, even, as I said previously, when the answers are a few threads down on the page they are viewing.
As a means of introducing yourself and striking up conversation it's an odd way of going about things.

 

[Digit]

I have posted in the past that there is 'no such thing as a daft question, only daft answers,' but after a few days on a motorbike forum I am definitely developing less sympathy for some.
One chap has removed the radiator and cooling fan from his whizz mobile to paint the rad. 'Could someone tell me where to reconnect the fan motor wires?'
I have advised him, but to be truthful my first reaction was to reply, 'where you disconnected them from!'

Roy.

 

[big soft moose]

No. You're missing the point.

For starters, in the example you gave (and you must be so bored to trawl through all my posts to find one to back up your argument) there is a world of difference between

"Can anyone recommend a planer-thicknesser' (ie ZERO reearch)

and

asking for clarification on research already carried out.

The emphasis is on the word ZERO and I have put it in capital letters for you.

I got your point - but my point was how much research could really have been done if you thought a portable thicknesser might be a planer thicknesser - imo that is exactly the sort of question you get from newbies who dont know any better, which in my view is fair enough , but seems to be what you are objecting to.

and btw i didnt trawl through your posts, i just jumped to your very first one, which took all of about 5 seconds

 

[Anonymous]

newbies ask as many questions as you like, simple or complex, they're alot of good folk on here who will be willing to help regardless how many times the question has been asked, whether it will be a direct answer or a link to a thread that covers the answer you need.

People like to help people, especially on here

 

[RogerS]

No. You're missing the point.

For starters, in the example you gave (and you must be so bored to trawl through all my posts to find one to back up your argument) there is a world of difference between

"Can anyone recommend a planer-thicknesser' (ie ZERO reearch)

and

asking for clarification on research already carried out.

The emphasis is on the word ZERO and I have put it in capital letters for you.

I got your point - but my point was how much research could really have been done if you thought a portable thicknesser might be a planer thicknesser - imo that is exactly the sort of question you get from newbies who dont know any better, which in my view is fair enough , but seems to be what you are objecting to.

and btw i didnt trawl through your posts, i just jumped to your very first one, which took all of about 5 seconds

What difficulty are you having in understanding the difference between ZERO and NOT ZERO? I can't explain it any clearer and so there's not much point in trying to.

 

[Jacob]

Fer f**ks sake it's stlll running, this utterly fascinating thread! Can somebody put it out of it's misery? Mods where are you? :roll:

 

[Lons]

I have posted in the past that there is 'no such thing as a daft question, only daft answers,' but after a few days on a motorbike forum I am definitely developing less sympathy for some.
One chap has removed the radiator and cooling fan from his whizz mobile to paint the rad. 'Could someone tell me where to reconnect the fan motor wires?'
I have advised him, but to be truthful my first reaction was to reply, 'where you disconnected them from!'

Roy.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

There are some numpties around :!:

Reminds me when I was asked a couple of years ago if I could mend a powakaddie golf trolley.

The guy had decided whilst cleaning it that the manufacturers had wired it up in wrongly and he promptly reversed the wiring - result = burned out motor :roll:

I would add that he had bought it new and used it twice a week for 18 years prior to doing that :?

What I said isn't printable :wink:

Bob

 

[Digit]

Another one wanted know why his dip beam had gone out!

Roy.