Do I REALLY need a smoothing plane?

[fobos8]

Hi guys

I'm the original poster. Many thanks for the replies.

So it seems that I do need a plane bigger than my block plane. I think a 4 1/2 will suit me. A 5 1/2 at 380mm long will be too long for site I think.

Have thought about getting a £40 plane but when I've bought cheap tools in the past I've got annoyed with the build quality and their performance.

If I got a "old" smoother from ebay how will I get the sole flat if it isn't supplied flat?

I now work in Jersey and sites here are a world apart from sites in the mainland. I now even leave my van open all day long. Peaple leave lazers etc on site over night and nothing ever goes missing. Also here I won't have to pay VAT so a £200 plane becomes £170. Taking a top quality plane to site wouldn't worry me at all.

What would the differences be between a Veritas/Clifton or a "old" Record from ebay?

Cheers, Andrew

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Andrew,

If you want smooth wood you need a smoother, a block plane will get wood smooth (better in fact than some smoothers, if set up specifically for the job) but if you are doing real work then it's the equivalent of commuting from Birmingham to London on a scooter.

Clifton are made by the same guys that used to make the 'made in Sheffield' Records before production moved to China, working on the same machines in the same building. The big difference is that under the new management they are not asked to "pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap" anymore, they are now encouraged to "make 'em right and sell 'em once", big difference.

You could fettle up an old one (pre-ww2), many have and enjoy fine results, but you'll be very lucky indeed to find a good used 4-1/2 for £40 and if you factor in the time you will spend getting it working right at your usual hourly rate they can start to get quite spendy.

 

[Karl]

Also here I won't have to pay VAT so a £200 plane becomes £170.

You will also be able to offset it as an expense against your tax bill. So it will actually be costing you much less than £170.

Whichever you go for, I doubt you'll be dissappointed.

Cheers

Karl

 

[fobos8]

if i got a old second hand record I have nothing to flaten the sole if it isn't true. I don't fancy get a oil or diamond stone just to do this because £40 then becomes £90. If the blade was crap can you just buy a really good A1 blade and switch them. What would the cost of that be another £40?

I'm just wondering of the low attractive cost of getting a decent unfettled plane will become £150 to get it in decent nick.........??

any thoughts? Andrew

 

[BradNaylor]

The two hand planes I actually use are a Veritas LA block plane and a Clifton 4 1/2.

I use them in the workshop AND on site. Why would I want to use an inferior tool that I wasn't comfortable with when I am working on site?

Ultimately, if I'm daft enough to lose one I'll just buy another. Tools are for doing a job of work with, not putting on a pedestal.

For the specific jobs that the OP refers to however, I would use an electric planer every time!

Cheers
Brad

 

[OPJ]

if i got a old second hand record I have nothing to flaten the sole if it isn't true. I don't fancy get a oil or diamond stone just to do this because £40 then becomes £90. If the blade was crap can you just buy a really good A1 blade and switch them. What would the cost of that be another £40?

I'm just wondering of the low attractive cost of getting a decent unfettled plane will become £150 to get it in decent nick.........??

any thoughts? Andrew

Flattening the sole doesn't have to cost you much at all. I did this myself not long to all my old Stanley planes using a few sheets of lapping film, glued to a sheet of MDF, to remove the high spots quickly, before finishing with bog standard wet and dry, up to 240g. Plane fettling only becomes expensive once you start buying accessories for it - like a new, thicker blade (circa. £40) and a thicker cap iron (£15-20). On a smoothing plane though, fitting a thicker blade can make a world of difference if you're struggling to plane hardwoods. I don't believe it is necessary to replace both iron and cap iron to get an improved performance but, each to their own. If you went for a thicker iron, you would almost certainly have to do spend some time opening the mouth with a file, to compensate for the increased thickness.

 

[big soft moose]

my mbgitw reads the forum

Who? What? Is this Welsh?

Mike

"Most Beautiful Girl In The World"

 

[MikeG.]

Ah, I see now, BSM!

A curious turn of events this afternoon. My wife, on hearing that Mrs O has started posting in support of her husbands exorbitant tool collection habit, suggested that she might start posting on here!! Her main thrust was to find out if everyone agreed with her that I had too many tools!!!!!!! :shock:

Her eye had been caught by my recently enlarged clamp collection....."surely nobody needs 30 clamps?"....... So, don't be surprised if Mrs G signs up and asks if I have too many clamps! I've already told her that it is difficult to conceive of having too many clamps, and that maybe she ought to ask instead how many planes people have, and how many planes are actually needed.

Fun, fun!

Mike

 

[big soft moose]

Ah, I see now, BSM!

A curious turn of events this afternoon. My wife, on hearing that Mrs O has started posting in support of her husbands exorbitant tool collection habit, suggested that she might start posting on here!! Her main thrust was to find out if everyone agreed with her that I had too many tools!!!!!!! :shock:

Her eye had been caught by my recently enlarged clamp collection....."surely nobody needs 30 clamps?"....... So, don't be surprised if Mrs G signs up and asks if I have too many clamps!

while i generally agree that you cant have to many clamps - if mrs g poses that question i'm minded to tell her that you only need a few - and that those ones with a "bessey" label on are rubbish and ought to disposed of asap

being the great bloke i am i'll also offer to come and get them so she doesnt have the trouble of disposing of them

might also tell her that you really need a lathe :lol: 8)

 

[MikeG.]

those ones with a "bessey" label on are rubbish and ought to disposed of asap

being the great bloke i am i'll also offer to come and get them so she doesnt have the trouble of disposing of them

might also tell her that you really need a lathe :lol: 8)

I'm touched that you could be so thoughtful, BSM!

I completely agree with your comment re-Bessey, so I avoided them. Mine tend to be labelled £5.99 or something similar.......

Lathe? Well, the only suitable place in the workshop would be where I keep my clamps, so its a bit of an "either/or" situation. Surely you don't want to see me going back to holding glue joints together with duct tape, do you?

Mike

 

[jlawrence]

It's impossible to have too many clamps.
The real question would be have you too many broken cheap clamps lying around the place .

 

[Ironballs]

I've got cheap clamps and more expensive clamps (not Bessey expensive though) of all shape and variety, i've never yet broken a clamp and for most jobs I'll use the weaker/lighter/cheaper clamps as they're easier to wield. If I have to clamp something so hard that I break the clamp then something is wrong in the joint construction

 

[big soft moose]

It's impossible to have too many clamps.
The real question would be have you too many broken cheap clamps lying around the place .

in a word yes - including the axminster f cramp which wasnt actually broken but the head kept coming loose no matter how hard it was done up - note i said wasnt broken - it is now as when it came loose for the third time during a glue up i had a rob moment and threw it on the floor and battered the hell out of it with a hammer.

 

[jlawrence]

I've broken the clamping mechanism on quite a few cheap fast squeezey type clamps. It's normally done when needing to clamps something really tight to the bench - Normally it's a bit of metal or something odd like that.
I don't think I've ever actually broken a clamp when clamping up a joint. I dare say it's normally when using a clamp for something it's not really capable of.

 

[Vann]

So it seems that I do need a plane bigger than my block plane. I think a 4 1/2 will suit me.

Have thought about getting a £40 plane but when I've bought cheap tools in the past I've got annoyed with the build quality and their performance.

If I got a "old" smoother from ebay how will I get the sole flat if it isn't supplied flat?

I now work in Jersey and sites here are a world apart from sites in the mainland. I now even leave my van open all day long. Also here I won't have to pay VAT so a £200 plane becomes £170. Taking a top quality plane to site wouldn't worry me at all.

What would the differences be between a Veritas/Clifton or a "old" Record from ebay?

Hi fobos8, my apologies on behalf of these guys who keep going off on tangents.... :roll:

I get the impression you can't be bothered fettling (you could get a good one, or you might end up with a dog), and you can afford to splash out on a Clifton or Veritas, and you're not too worried about theft on-site. So either brand is good. Veritas are more innovative, Clifton more traditional.

If you're looking for a smoother of around No.4½ size, Veritas make a very good low angle smoother called the Bevel Up Smoother (BUS) and a "not-quite-so-often-raved-about" slightly smaller low angle smoother, surprisingly called the Low Angle Smoother (LAS). They also make a standard angle ("common pitch") #4½ Smoothing Plane, but I've never seen any review or comment about the latter (good or bad).

All the Clifton bench planes get reasonable press and they make a No.4½ (and they're British!!!).

Which one you get is up to personal preference. If you don't have a preference, just go by looks, as all of the above planes should perform well, though the low angle ones can be more versitile - however the low angle BUS can't be used for shooting.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Cheers, Vann.