Disregard for safety and common sense

[Sawyer]

3 or 4 years ago I was looking at a US magazine (sorry, can't remember which) about table saws which come with a riving knife. I got the impression that the riving knife is considered something of an optional extra in the States and that on many saws other there, a riving knife can't even be fitted.

I sincerely hope that I got the wrong impression??

 

[tool613]

3 or 4 years ago I was looking at a US magazine (sorry, can't remember which) about table saws which come with a riving knife. I got the impression that the riving knife is considered something of an optional extra in the States and that on many saws other there, a riving knife can't even be fitted.

I sincerely hope that I got the wrong impression??

Most saws in the USA are fitted with a splitter. The largest problem with that is there are time when the splitter need to be removed and never makes it back on the saw.This no knife crown gaurd type up set up with sawsin the US was popularized by knock it out nail gun Norm. The US solution(a cost saving approach by the makes to meet weak regulations there) is to make them easy to remove and put back on but your rarely see them back on. Theses splitters are all cheaper to make than a real riving knife that needs never be removed. Most there don't know the difference between a riving knife and a splitter and see it as a devise to hold a crown guard that is in the way of there poorly designed fences. Because of the lack of training they are often the wrong size and set up is incorrect. All this leads them to believe that they are junk and all they need is a push stick and control of the wood to make thing safe. Most if not all the amputation of fingers in the US in done in an controled manor.


jack

 

[heimlaga]

This is just my home made theory which developed when I read those threads over at the Old Woodworking Machinery Forum. It may be wrong.

I think this difference comes from the hyper-individualism in USA. Nobody cares whether a worker is dead or alive. The goverment does not pay for rehabilitation and health care and as an accident does not cost......so what..... Most employers can afford lawyers after an accident so I suppose that a poor worker who cannot pay a lawyer has a hard time beating his employer in court. "Irishmen are cheaper than pit-props" the old saying goes. Machinery makers know that in court even dysfunctional guards are considered guards and thereby they fullfill their primary function which is to safeguard the makers from lawsuits. Labour unions have little power.

In Europe we have had politically strong labour unions who have had interest in the wellbeing of their members. We have socialized medicine which in turn makes every avoided accident a direct windfall profit for government. Employers normally cannot get away from their responsibilities after work accidents so many employers have also had interrest in the wellbeing of their workers.


Unfortunately I see this American wiew and American style guards spreading even in Europe theese days. I have seen the construction field in Finland going down in just a few years. What a shame.

 

[lanemaux]

Howdy Wobblycogs, some fun that show , huh? I watch it often , and not really for the tool abuse. I will admit that watching someone hammer in a screw can be entertaining. I will even admit to a suspense and horror attraction in the dangerous tool manipulations. My true interest is in the phsychological aspects revealed. The first season showcased a range of mental blocks suitable for defending a fortress. Most of the participants carried their own mental baggage in their own heads , my favorite brought his in on his arm. Darryl was a fit and seemingly masculine individual, until his wife piped up that is. If you catch one or two of his episodes you will see what I mean. Proof of her influence came when she was separated from him for one of the "challenges" that needed doing. Partnered with someone else , while not a DIY genius , he performed far better to the point of a successful completion. His first if I recall correctly. It was all I could do not to stand and cheer for the poor slob.

 

[wobblycogs]

I've watched the first three episodes from series four now (and got the wife in for the last two). Like you I've started to get more interested in the people although the tool abuse adds a good dose of suspense - will he / wont he cut off a finger?.

The one thing that has really struck me though is how badly the contestants and their partners treat each other. I realize it's stressful for them, and the editing can make things seem a lot worse than they really are, but if they calmed down a bit and read the instructions half their problems would go away.

I'm constantly amazed by the way they can't seem to think a problem through. Faced with the problem of joining two small bits of wood so they'll go and get a 150mm screw and nail it in then wonder why the wood split.

The only aspect I don't really like is the patronizing experts and fake game show style but that has, unfortunately, become the standard format for this type of show. Now, if they would just let them loose with a nail gun...

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I always use a straight edge with a circular-saw, or at the very least, I fit the fence that comes with them. Freehand cutting means one little twist too far from the straight and narrow, and the saw leaps back at you. With a guide, the twisting shouldn't occur. I will probably be laughed at by some Pros here, but I can still count to ten on the 'abacus' I was born with! :wink:

One of the best thing I've tested in the last few years is Kreg's Square-Cut jig for cutting square with a hand-held circular saw. It lines up instantly with your mark, and is one of the simplest, most useful devices I've ever had in the workshop. It hangs above my crosscut bench, and replaces (in many ways) the need for a chopsaw. Triton in the UK have recently launched a similar jig, which we'll hopefully be testing in the next issue.

 

[McGill]

Am I the only one here who cringes at the very idea of using a circular saw one-handed?

I mean, you can't cut your hand off if both hands are holding the saw, surely?

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I would like to say that I hold both hands on a circular saw every time I use it but I don't, particularly when cutting plywood sheets where the need to take one hand off the saw is necissary to complete the cut.

I think though there is a great difference between taking one of your hands off a circular saw and making free hand cuts on a tablesaw as was the original post.

 

[Chems]

Another one for the American crazys, I've seen a few episodes of MythBusters on TV recently and they often cut sheet goods up for their experiments. Always blade at full height, no riving knife and no blade guard. I did see a push stick in one episode though.

 

[Sawyer]

Come to think of it, I've been looking out for a hefty portable circular saw for ripping the wane off hardwood planks prior to the table saw.

Bosch blue seemed the best place to look: the GKS 85 with 235mm blade. Designed to be used with a guide rail, apparently, which is when I noticed it has no riving knife :shock: Am I missing something, or is this a spectacularly bad idea?

Consequently, my deliberations are tending towards the Makita 5905RK. Unless anybody has a better idea?

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Can't comment on the Bosch, although I have read forums on other tools of that brand. They all get great feedback. One guy said even the other tool brand reps don't have a bad word for Bosch. Has to be a good idictment I feel.

I have this day, by coincidence spashed out on a makita SP6000 plunge saw with 2 rails, pricey but worth it. I'll use this for the more accurate work and my old Skil saw for the rougher cuts.

 

[woodbloke]

I would like to say that I hold both hands on a circular saw every time I use it but I don't, particularly when cutting plywood sheets where the need to take one hand off the saw is necissary to complete the cut.

I think though there is a great difference between taking one of your hands off a circular saw and making free hand cuts on a tablesaw as was the original post.

Sometimes I use the portable c/s one handed, but most of the time both are on the machine. If I'm cutting the sap and bark of a waney board I always use the c/s without the fence and follow the line freehand. Provided the kerf is kept open with a wedge at the beginning of the cut I've not experienced any problems - Rob

 

[wobblycogs]

I use a Bosch GKS 65 for ripping the edge off waney boards. The lack of riving knife does worry me a little but so far I've not had even the hint of a problems. I run the saw with a home made guide rail.

As for the saw itself it's nearly indestructible. In one of their promo videos Bosch show it falling on a concrete floor from a work bench and surviving unscathed. I've not managed that but I have knocked it off the bench on to a wooden floor, it didn't even need readjusting. Once I get my real workshop up and running I'm probably going to get rid of it but only because I want a real track saw.

 

[awkwood]

I have had a couple of very violent kickbacks using the mafell mt55c ( which hasn't a riving knife) when ripping beech block worktops. It cut a big chuck out of the guide rail.

They are brilliant saws but not ideal for deep rip cuts in hardwood, due to lack of riving knife

Be Carefull

 

[Tony Spear]

I will admit that watching someone hammer in a screw can be entertaining.

Over here, Matey that's called using a Brummagem screwdriver. :mrgreen:

My Old Man was an expert with one. :shock:

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Awkwood, Yes I guess that will be ture, I will actually be using it to ross cut Walnut worktops next weekend. The W/tops are 40mm thick but was think of making the cut in three or so passes, to minimise the risks and the incidents likely to occur from heavy cutting with no splitter.