Did you pocket hole project wobble then fall apart?

[Amateur]

Well it's been some time since pocket hole joinery has been talked about.
Wife bought me a jig a few years back but it's just sat on the shelf.
I've never used it but having to make a kids bedroom desk now it does seem appropriate.
So my question is this, If you built something using this system how well has the end product held up over time? Has it fallen apart? Or is it solid as a rock still

 

[Fitzroy]

Heathen, burn in the fires of hell for mentioning such an abomination. Now that's out the way.

I've no experience of using a dedicated pocket hole screwing system but built plenty of things over the years with screws rather than proper joinery. Many of these have adequately stood the test of time, those that have survived the best are where I put sufficient thought into how the piece would work regards to imparted loads and the screwed structure. I expect it's like other joinery, if you understand the limitations of any joint and only use it where appropriate it'll be fine. With only a pocket hole to join stuff, you'll need to tailor your structure to the joint, rather than pick the joint appropriate for your structure.

Fitz.

 

[Jacob]

Pocket hole joinery is p*ss poor. It's only for quick bodges or cheap furniture. Nails often as good.
Though you see it a lot in tables where the top is held by pocketed screws up through the apron. They work OK as there is no bending or torsional stress.
nb it's easy to do pocket holes without a jig and special kit. You start the hole at 90º . As soon as it's ledged in a few mm lift the drill to send it down at the screw angle. Then countersink your new hole and drop in a screw.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Well it's been some time since pocket hole joinery has been talked about.
Wife bought me a jig a few years back but it's just sat on the shelf.
I've never used it but having to make a kids bedroom desk now it does seem appropriate.
So my question is this, If you built something using this system how well has the end product held up over time? Has it fallen apart? Or is it solid as a rock still

None of the projects I’ve used pocket hole screws on have had any problems, going on 10 years now.

 

[AES]

Well I have a Kreg jig, (and their screws) and while I've only used it for "rough joinery" (about all I'm capable of really), IMO it's the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Just as Fitzroy says, you have to think about where to put the screws, and into which piece in which direction, but with the Kreg system, all that thinking is done for you - depth & position of holes, to suit the thickness of the boards, etc, is ALL matked out on the jig and you just set everything as per the instructions/markings on the jig. Simples!

AND BTW, although they're expensive, I ALWAYS use the Kreg screws - I have NO truck with CS screws and/or with washers under the head. If one thinks about the forces involved, not using the special screws is complete nonsense IMO. AND I always glue too (PVA).

So, definitely NOT for fine furniture (but I'm not into that anyway) but some of the workshop cupboards (a bit like kitchen cupboards) and other bits I'vee made are fine - made when I first bought the Kreg, roughly 10 years ago now.

If you're not talking Kreg though I can't help you.

HTH

P.S. I've just seen Jacob's post. IMO, complete rubbish. Sometimes, somebody does come up with something new, and it IS an improvement on traditional methods - PROVIDED it's used properly (including the screws)!

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Pocket hole joinery is p*ss poor. It's only for quick bodges or cheap furniture.

Pocket hole joinery is as good as the project it’s used on. It isn’t suitable in every situation or for every joint, but if used in the correct places it is excellent.

 

[Jacob]

..... Sometimes, somebody does come up with something new, and it IS an improvement on traditional methods - PROVIDED it's used properly (including the screws)!

It isn't new. It's been in use probably since the screw was invented.
It'll do for some things yes but basically a weak joint not far removed from simply using nails

 

[jcassidy]

I've never seen the point of buying a jig, all my pocket screws are done by eye using the 'start at 90 and then redrill at whatever' technique.

Anyway the one word of caution is to beware using a powered driver to drive the screws home because you can burst the pocket, which is a bit harder to do when screwing straight through. Especially on ply or chipboard. I've busted many a project doing just that. Set the clutch down to just enough to tighten the screw.

Other than that, knock yourself out!

 

[porker]

The other thing that pocket holes are good for is removing the need for a clamp if you glue the joint as well. Sometimes clamping can be difficult and putting in a hidden pocket hole holds it together while the glue dries. The only tricky bit is not letting the joint move while tightening the screw as the angles tend to try to pull the joint out of alignment. Have been known to put a couple of biscuits in to stop this.

 

[AES]

It isn't new. It's been in use probably since the screw was invented.
It'll do for some things yes but basically a weak joint not far removed from simply using nails

The Kreg jig IS (relatively) new, and it is to the Kreg that I was referring.

 

[Rorschach]

Nothing wrong with pocket holes when used in the right situation. They are a fast, easy and cheap method of doing a hidden fastening in cabinet construction. You can do them freehand but why risk messing it up when a cheap jig is only a few £'s. It's like dowelling, you don't need a jig to do that but a cheap one makes life a lot easier and the results are more consistent and less risky. Most of my use for them has been repair as I don't build a lot of furniture, they have allowed me to carry out some repairs that would have been really tricky otherwise.

I have even used them to fix a set of mini "floating" shelves to a wall and they worked great (light load obviously).

 

[recipio]

They are simply not strong enough to be used in any joint that will be stressed. I like to think that anything I make will be around in 100 years and not held together by a pair of rusty screws ! The only exception I can see is making banks of shelving or faceframes and I am struggling to find anything cheaper or faster.

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

I use them a fair bit, but only ever with glue. I find them excellent for carcasses as you can hide the pocket holes on the outside where they will be covered up by other carcasses, wall or end panel. It's the lack of clamps that I find particularly useful.

As for the utility of a jig, I wish people would consider the value of things for people that haven't accrued decades of experience. A jig that guarantees accuracy is absolutely invaluable for somebody entering the trade/hobby.

 

[Rorschach]

I use them a fair bit, but only ever with glue. I find them excellent for carcasses as you can hide the pocket holes on the outside where they will be covered up by other carcasses, wall or end panel. It's the lack of clamps that I find particularly useful.

As for the utility of a jig, I wish people would consider the value of things for people that haven't accrued decades of experience. A jig that guarantees accuracy is absolutely invaluable for somebody entering the trade/hobby.

Yes not needing clamps is great for repairs (my main use). Sometimes a clamp just isn't possible in a confined space.

Regarding jigs, it isn't just lacking the skill. Imagine you have 20 holes to make, you get 19 perfect by eye and on the 20th you go a little too deep and the screw pokes out on the finished face of the project. It's like drilling holes, I can drill holes at 90degrees really quite well and for a one off I might not use the drill press, but if I have multiples to do and messing one up would spoil the project you can bet that I use the drill press or a jig to do them.

 

[AES]

@recipio: OK, each to his own, but you said QUOTE: .... not held together by a pair of rusty screws ! .... UNQUOTE.

While I said, QUOTE: PROVIDED it's used properly (including the screws)! UNQUOTE:

So I ask have you ever used the Kreg screws? Reason for asking is that although I'm not a metallurgist I DO know something about plating and steel. Kreg screws ARE plated and although it's daft to say they'd "never" rust, personally I can't think of any fastener which is plated to a better standard for its use, and that includes high-tech aero-industry fasteners. Certainly I've seen nothing better (plating standards) and few if any equals on the "domestic" market.

It's obvious from the posts to date that some people don't like pocket holes/jigs at all (which is fine, "each to his own" and all that). But if you're going to "damn" something just because you don't like it recipio you should at least come up with a "real" reason and not some fatuous nonsense about rusty screws and limited strength (I also said use PVA).

I stick to my original reply up above: Used properly, including the proper screws, and for the "right" job, the Kreg Pocket Hole jig is a VERY useful - and "relatively new" - invention, well worth the money IMO - AND, used as described, the end results are certainly strong enough for any "normal" usage.

 

[artie]

I've used them a few times.
They have done the job and holding up ok.

I used glue as well.

 

[Chippymint]

AES. I support your view and many others. They are fine for certain applications but personally I wouldn't use them where the wood is going to be stressed or if the hole could be seen. I mainly use traditional methods.

I've seen some top-notch cabinet making companies use these joints when building aspects of cabinets such as bespoke kitchen unit frames. To be honest they looked great.

Assuming one has the correct screw for the job and the hole depth is correct, where it can go wrong is when insufficient clamping pressure cannot or is not applied prior to running the screw home. Sometimes this is due to the two faces not being true as they are not square or the pressure is insufficient or out of alignment. Also, one can overtighten the screws, especially with softer wood.

Ref screws. I use a combination of Kreg and Trend screws. Both are very good. The plating is either chrome or antique bronze finish (not sure if this is the true term but suffice for identifying). Not had a problem with either.

I dont think there is anything wrong with the jigs. They make light work of doing this job and once set up correctly, you can get an impressive production run.

All trades evolve and it's always good to see an invention that can make life a little easier.

 

[AES]

Thanks Chippymint! I guess I'm just not "the bloke" when it comes to fine cabinetry (nor production runs!) but anything that speeds up my snail pace while STILL maintaining accuracy has got to be good for me.

BTW, thanks for the "tip" about Trend screws. Didn't know they do them, and "real" Kregs are difficult to get hold of here (Kreg don't seem to have any stockists in Switzerland).

Cheers

 

[MusicMan]

I've used them a few times but not when there was much stress. The first was for fake laboratory benches for a film set, made quickly and cheaply out of whole sheets of chipboard with melamine finish. They just had to hang together and support some electronic equipment, which they did fine until the assistant director leaped on one to get at a higher part of the set. Some emergency repairs and cover-up white paint were needed! At the end of filming the whole set went in the tip. Amazing what you can get away with on a film set. Did the job. The other was a set of shelves to fit exactly in an alcove. The shelves basically interlocked and supported themselves once in the alcove but pocket screws were handy to hold the structure in shape while I manoeuvred it in position.

Quick, do the job, but won't take stress on their own.

 

[TheTiddles]

I made some cheap MDF wardrobes (second hand hinges, handles made from pipe offcuts from work, I think the paint was the most expensive component) entirely held together with pocket screws, they moved house 4 times in total, being completely taken apart and assembled each time, I think the person we gave them to years later is still using them

Aidan