Cyclones

[Ian-p]

This is probably a daft question but I'm new to the world of cyclones and dust extraction.
I'm expecting delivery of a Makita dust extractor tomorrow, I will be looking to maximise its efficiency and I'm contemplating building a small Cyclone, can anyone tell me, does this improve the suction rate or simply act as a separator..
Thanks in advance, Ian.....

 

[scooby]

Not a daft question. It just acts as a separator so the majority (hopefully) of the dust, etc will be collected in the cyclone bin. End result, your vac will need less bag and filter changes.

 

[sunnybob]

AS above.
It diverts the dust into a bigger collector so you dont have to empty it so often. It also helps slightly to keep the motor and fan in the extractor clear of build up of dust, but it actually makes the extractor less efficient due to increased air friction.
Why build your own cyclone? For that sized extractor you can buy one on ebay for about 30 quid or even less, ready to go. Home made cyclones generally are not efficient due to being unable to make the sides smooth.

Are you going to put the two onto a cart as seen in many utube videos? if not, youre soon going to get fed up with the hoses from one to the other draping all over the place. :roll:

 

[woodbloke66]

AS above.
It diverts the dust into a bigger collector so you dont have to empty it so often. It also helps slightly to keep the motor and fan in the extractor clear of build up of dust, but it actually makes the extractor less efficient due to increased air friction.

I use an Onedia Super Dust Deputy with a twin motor Camvac as the 'sucker' and all of the grunge gets dumped into a large 220L converted water butt, so it only needs to be emptied fairly infrequently. Fine sanding dust from the lathe, disc sander etc accumulates on the Camvac filter so this is routinely cleaned outside every Sunday morning - Rob

 

[sunnybob]

If the fine sanding dust is getting to the camvac then I think the suction is too great for the cyclone.
How large are the pipes on the dust deputy?
I first bought one of those 50 mm white nylon cyclones, but my extractor had a 100mm pipe and the cyclone just didnt cope. It only seperated the larger stuff.
i then made my own cyclone out of a 3/4 sized traffic cone with 75 mm pipes and that removed everything. The main tank on the extractor stayed completely empty.

 

[transatlantic]

I hope one day, manufacturers will incorporate a cyclone into the wet/dry vacs. Seems daft to have a vac with a great big bin that never fills, and then a second bin that does. The whole thing could be made so much more compact. I'm guessing there is a good reason for them not doing it though.

 

[Distinterior]

I hope one day, manufacturers will incorporate a cyclone into the wet/dry vacs. Seems daft to have a vac with a great big bin that never fills, and then a second bin that does. The whole thing could be made so much more compact. I'm guessing there is a good reason for them not doing it though.

Something like these 2 are the closest anyone has come up with so far.....

 

[transatlantic]

I hope one day, manufacturers will incorporate a cyclone into the wet/dry vacs. Seems daft to have a vac with a great big bin that never fills, and then a second bin that does. The whole thing could be made so much more compact. I'm guessing there is a good reason for them not doing it though.

Something like these 2 are the closest anyone has come up with so far.....

Again though, you still have that wasted space inside the vac. I guess all you really need is a motor and a very small dust bag to replace the vac section itself. So the whole thing could be made so much smaller, ... and probably more efficient?

 

[woodbloke66]

If the fine sanding dust is getting to the camvac then I think the suction is too great for the cyclone.
How large are the pipes on the dust deputy?

It's the 2hp twin motor Camvac and this is the power recommended not only by Onedia for the Super Dust Deputy, but also the boss at Toolovation in the UK who import them from the States. The pipes on are the standard 100mm. The system actually works well and it's inevitable that fine dust will make it's way past the main collector, so it's really just a question of cleaning the big cloth filter inside the Camvac drum after a lengthy sanding session. No big deal really - Rob

 

[sunnybob]

I didnt realise it had 100 mm pipes. All the ones I have seen are 50 or 60 mm.

 

[Bm101]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07H73 ... psc=1&th=1

Anyone have any experience of the cheaper alternative cyclones?

 

[mbartlett99]

Yes, use a chinese one for my nilfisk and its brilliant. Only cost a few quid. BTW I had one of the blue bins like the one in your link .... which immediately collapsed.

 

[Distinterior]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07H73DNXP/ref=sspa_mw_detail_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&th=1

Anyone have any experience of the cheaper alternative cyclones?

I have the Dust Commander version. It's Anti Static and works a treat.....It's a bit more money, but as I have mine connected to a Festool dust extractor with Anti Static hoses, it made sense to get the Anti Static cyclone to prevent static build up.

 

[Cordy]

THIS is what I bought -- about 450 mm high x 340 mm diameter
Expensive, but all the parts for connecting are there, the metal drum is solid

Never regretted it, fitted to a home-made trolley coupled to an auto-start Nilfisk Attix 30 SIMILAR
It works a treat; all dust chippings go into D/C which seems to compress slightly

 

[woodbloke66]

I didnt realise it had 100 mm pipes. All the ones I have seen are 50 or 60 mm.

Yup, 50 or 60mm for the smaller cyclones, this is the Super Dust Deputy...

...sitting on top of the water butt. I've got a small cyclone with 60mm hoses attached the 'shop vac with a Numatic NVD 750 as the agent of suck. If you inadvertently get too close to that nozzle hanging down, you'll loose your Wisdom teeth If you enlarge the pic you'll see that I wasn't able to make a suitable 'proper' connection to either cyclone; easily fixed though by butting up the hoses, wrapping with a couple of turns of duct tape and then cable ties (knighthood to the bloke that invented them!) for a bit of 'belt n'braces' - Rob

 

[Bm101]

https://www.toolstation.com/68mm-pipe-socket/p78363

These any good Rob?
Saw them suggested in another informative thread while 'researching' a while back.
Two good reads on the subject. (With many thanks to all those involved).
new-vac-it-s-a-question-of-suckage-t55890.html
Which gave me a basic grasp of the rudiments of suckage.
waste-plumbing-for-dust-extraction-t81297.html (<<< This one Rob)
Where I decided to copy Fluffflingers model both on coupling and hose sizes etc. (Thank you Richard if you are reading this)!

Only main difference is that I want to build a suppressed mdf unit for the vac. (I'm not going to give it the vote. Possibly pay it less for doing the same job. Make jokes about how it's little feet are so it can get closer to the area to be vacuumed. Humorous stuff. :roll: ).
Nearly all my waste collection is from small ported tools so dust in the air is the main concern. I don't quite do enough of it at the moment or it's a PITA changing hoses etc so I need a solution that makes me do it. One that's easy, quiet and fairly mobile. If I can easily collect at source, I will. Vent properly and blow air out the doors and I'm on ma way to a healthier, tidier, more productive shed.
A least in theory.

On the subject, went to a fish shop lately, my lad keeps a small tank. Looking at the hose sold and it looked solid. Far more robust than usual vac hose. Various sizes. Cheaper by the metre at least where I was. Someone must have tried it?

 

[scooby]

without meaning to take the thread too far off topic.
Ive got a Titan shop vac (used for sander, router and floor cleaning, etc) and have been meaning to sort out a cyclone for ages.
Would this combination work on a lunchbox thicknesser if I used a 2.5" hose to the cyclone? At the moment, I just let out all the chips fly out on to the floor and sweep them up after.
My home workshop is tiny (around 8ft x 6ft) so adding a larger chip collector isnt an option, I'm already out of space. Just thought I'd ask before ordering a 2.5" hose.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I have a small cyclone separator which I use with power tool and my router table, and a Thein separator which I use on my SCMS. Both work well, though the Thein is less effective, mainly because SCMS extraction is notoriously difficult anyway.
Remember that the separation happens due to the sudden drop of pressure, so with a small cyclone the drop is less pronounced, so I guess it would be less useful if extracting a small machine using 100mm hose.
Bin collapse is a serious problem! Get a metal one if you can, or, if you have to use plastic, fit a pressure relief valve. Mine is an old scraper with a piece of string and some nuts attached as weights!

 

[woodbloke66]

https://www.toolstation.com/68mm-pipe-socket/p78363

These any good Rob?
Saw them suggested in another informative thread while 'researching' a while back.
Two good reads on the subject. (With many thanks to all those involved).
new-vac-it-s-a-question-of-suckage-t55890.html
Which gave me a basic grasp of the rudiments of suckage.
waste-plumbing-for-dust-extraction-t81297.html (<<< This one Rob)

Dunno, I never got that far. Joining hoses to machines or fittings is a proverbial 'mare 'cos everything seems a slightly different size, so over the years I've usually improvised with all sorts of plumbing fittings and where that doesn't work, duct tape and cable ties save the day. The connections on my cyclones have been in place now for at leat a couple of years and show no signs of coming apart - Rob

 

[Lazurus]

https://www.carbatec.com.au/dust-contro ... -separator

I use one of the above bin lid separator's on top of a 220l plastic drum, coupled to a fairly cheap chip extractor, I must say for the few pounds it is brilliant been on for a year now and still yet to empty the extractor bag as everything drops into the bin with no noticeable drop in suck!!!!