Cutting Laminate Worktop

[wizer]

Like I have time for this....

My Mum just called to say they she'd been out and bought some laminate worktop for her kitchen and wants to have it installed for xmas :roll: #-o ](*,)

Could I ask the board for some tips please? I guess I need to buy a jig? Are the budget ones ok?

I have the Triton Router which I think was born for this task. What other tools might I need?

She needs the worktop joined into 3 right angled sections and the hobs and sink cut out.

Any help apprecieated

 

[londonsteve2]

http://www.kitchensfitted.co.uk/Externa ... ticle5.php

Just make sure you turn the worktop upsidedown if cutting to length with a circularsaw
Cheers Steve

 

[Colin C]

Hi WiZeR

I have fitted a few kitchens and I use a circular saw for my cutouts ( with a 40 tooth blade and some masking tape where I am cutting ), this way I get straight cut.

For cheap worktop jig try here

I hope this helps

Ps Some that have done more might tell you some things else .
It just the way I do mine

 

[Scrit]

A couple of extra pointers - use a decent quality brand new TCT (or better still a replaceable-tip TCT) router cutter and if sawing cut from the front (post-formed) edge with a sharp/new fine tooth ATB blade. Your saw should either run on a rail or against a straight batten. Cheap router cutters won't give you a decent chip-free finish and they'll scream noisily at you as well - so avoid them! The cut always needs to be done so that you are cutting into the worktop with the waste on the right as you look at it to avoid chip out and I've not been impressed with the quality of cheap jigs - there's no such thing as a free meal. Make your cuts in 3 or 4 passes pushing the router over to the right side of the slot and withdrawing the cutter before running back to the start position - then make a final cut with the router pushed against the left side of the jig slot (they are 0.5 to 1mm wider than the guide bush to accommodate this finish cut). Make sure that you have a method to centre the guide bush (Elu used to supply a special tool with the MOF177e for just this purpose, DW still sell it and Festool do one as well).

Make sure that you have enough "meat" in the joints on the worktops to get three fasteners in. This may mean not doing the joints in the "correct" manner/order to achieve the given result.

Other tools you might need include masking tape (used to mark the position of the jig on the top in case you need to slew the jig to correct for an out of square corner - also keeps the top clean when using colour fill or silicone to seal the joint), a decent large square (i.e. 12in or bigger), three QR cramps with soft jaw facings (e.g. Wolfcraft or similar - G cramps can mark), ear defenders and a mask (because most routers won't perform a worktop task with the DX in place)

The cut-outs need to be done with a half-decent jig saw - drill out the corners and use a fresh blade to make the cuts and work from the underside with orbit either switched off or minimal if you want a clean edge (shouldn't really matter as the edges are always covered by a 10mm or so margin) - you can use a down cut blade, but only if your jigsaw is man enough for the task. Seal the exposed edges with something - silicone, exterior grade PVA, varnish, old gloss paint - it doesn't matter what as long as it seals. I'd also suggest fitting the sink and taps with their feed pipes into that section of the worktop before jointing as it can be a royal PIA to do it afterwards. The also allows you to tighten the clips round what will be the back of the sink properly and with a lot less bad language.

If jointing onto corner units make sure that there are cut-outs to allow you to get the fasteners in place........

Finally you'll need to seal each joint you make. Varnish, D3 PVA, PU glue work well on the underside of the joint whilst Colorfill or an appropriate silicone will do the job (for example I use the Evostik professional silicone on black worktops - nice and runny). I tend to start by squaring up and levelling the front fastener then flexing the middle of the joint together and tightening before doing the rear. Cutting biscuit slots just adds to the pain of tightening a joint and can make levelling up the edges almost impossible at times. Most worktops seem to have some inherent warping and this will need to be corrected. BTW you have 5 to 10 minutes to get this joint right, so speedy working is essential.......

Scrit

 

[Anonymous]

I guess I need to buy a jig? Are the budget ones ok?

Every time I did a work top I hired a trend jig. Their instruction video is ecxellent. I never had any bother even setting up to allow for out of square wall's, it would probably cost less to hire than buy a chinease cheapie if you only do a very few worktop's

 

[PowerTool]

BTW you have 5 to 10 minutes to get this joint right, so speedy working is essential.......
Scrit

You're not kidding - it's taken me about that long just to read the instructions,let alone follow them.. :lol:

Andrew

 

[stairman]

I think the worktop have got worse I used to get them to line up along the masons mitre now I get annoyed because I always have a lip between the two worktops (as felt by closing eyes and passing hand over joint )

I used to have graet diffficulty finding the joint (probably 10 or more years ago) now I try not to do them because I always feel a step although don't usulaly see it

Either I am getting more fussy or the worktops are poorer quality (they used to have a balanciing covering on the underside to stop cupping)

 

[engineer one]

i would reiterate the words of scrit in terms of the fittings for the sink and
even the hob. it is easier to manipulate the tails if they are long than putting holes in your head because you can only get your fingers up behind the sink. :?

think about having to repair later not about installing. whether you use flexi pipes or solid, it is easier later in life if you need to change things
if the joints are about halfway down the unit rather than just up beneath the taps. also i would suggest that you put those screwdriver turned water stop cocks, think they are called isolaters, and you normally use them for
washing and dishwashing machines. means that later you do not have to turn the mains off if you need to change a washer etc.

oh by the way don't forget the earth cable between the water pipes etc.

paul :wink:

 

[mailee]

Wizer, do a search on the Net for 'Ray Girling' he has a tutorial on there for making the Masons mitre wortop joint using a jig. It is very helpful and gives the correct procedure. I have fitted a few of these now and can say that you will need a new cutter after every second joint made as they rubbish they put into worktops now soon blunts them. Make sure you scribe the tops to the walls first and then cut the joints. Always remember to cut into the postformed edge and not out of it or it will splinter and chip. This will necessitate some of the cuts being done from the back of course. Finally cut the female joint first and adjust any out of square on the male. Hope this helps. :wink:

 

[mailee]

Oh, almost forgot to mention, Look on e-bay for the HIB jig, it is one of the best and costs less too. :wink:

 

[Argee]

Wizer, do a search on the Net for 'Ray Girling' he has a tutorial on there for making the Masons mitre wortop joint using a jig. It is very helpful and gives the correct procedure.

Oooh - that's me! Here's the link.

Ray.

 

[Scrit]

Either I am getting more fussy or the worktops are poorer quality (they used to have a balancing covering on the underside to stop cupping)

Bit of both, I'd say. I reckon that really good quality worktopds like the Pfleiderer (Duropal) or Formica (Prima) suffer from this much less than say Wilsonart (Resopal) and the like.

also I would suggest that you put those screwdriver turned water stop cocks, think they are called isolaters, and you normally use them for washing and dishwashing machines. Means that later you do not have to turn the mains off if you need to change a washer etc.

You can actually get hold of 15mm compression end flexible hoses with in-built isolators, although not too many places stock them. The type of isolators used for washing machines havd a different (large diameter) thread at one end as opposed to the compression fittings on an in-line isolator. Another space saver is the tee-isolator for washing machines - a compression equal tee with a washing machine thread and ball valve on the arm. Really useful (although not available from B&Q.....). As E1 says - fit the tails as well if you can.

oh by the way don't forget the earth cable between the water pipes etc.

Another good reaspon to use brass compression fittings instead of plastic "speed fit" stuff - earth continuity is maintained

Another neat idea I came across recently is a 32/38mm flexible waste pipe by Marley (and yes, B&Q do these....). Makes plumbing in awkward waste runs so much easier

Make sure you scribe the tops to the walls first and then cut the joints.

Don't know about you, but with a 570mm deep unit and a 20mm thick door you don't really have much room for scribing anything in many kitchens. Sometimes easier to pack-out the backsplash after the top has gone in. remember also that tiles, etc will cover any minor discrepancies.

Finally cut the female joint first and adjust any out of square on the male.

I generally work the other way round - adjust for out of square on the male. The reason is that the female needs to be located by three stops, two at the edge and one for the width of worktop. Go out of square and that width of top goes all to pot, hence adjusting for out of square on the male. I've done 6 joints like that in the last 3 weeks, so I know it works for me

Scrit

 

[wizer]

An absolute wealth of information! Many many thanks for your replies all.

 

[garywayne]

Just a bit.

Why do the worktop jigs cost so damn much. :?:

 

[George_N]

I bought a worktop jig off Ebay from these guys. It is a solid phenolic jig and looks to be very well made. It came marked as "seconds" and it has a large scratch on one side. This is only cosmetic and doesn't make any difference to the function of the jig. I've not used it yet on a "good" worktop but the test cuts I have tried on scrap material look fine.

 

[mailee]

Sorry Scrit, that is what I meant to say although it didn't come out that way. I always cut the out of square on the male and not the female.
Also Oppologies Ray, I didn't realise that it was you on the forum. Great site and very informative. I do generaly scribe the worktops first unless the gap is too large to bridge with tiles of course. I have even heard of someone cutting into the plaster to get one to fit. Whatever works I suppose. :wink:

 

[Scrit]

Why do the worktop jigs cost so damn much. :?:

The solid laminate material is circa £200 or so per sheet and CNC machining time is £40+ per hour........ Plus of course the retailers margin :roll:

I do generaly scribe the worktops first unless the gap is too large to bridge with tiles of course. I have even heard of someone cutting into the plaster to get one to fit.

All I can say is lucky you. As soon as integrated appliances raise their (ugly?) heads the option of scribing the worktop/backs of carcasses to fit the wall disappears out the window - trying to stuff a 590mm deep tumble drier (yes, Electrolux, that's one of your pieces of "clever" design) into a 570mm deep carcass with pipework behind recently resulted in having to slice-down a 4m x 690mm breakfast bar top to get a 1.6 metre long piece of 640mm wide "standard" worktop. The customer was not amused....... at least I didn't design the kitchen and the end result looked pretty good.

I've been using laminate backsplashes a bit recently and these can give you a good 16mm or so to play with (8mm laminate thickness + 8mm location strip thickness) and they can be really useful on dog leg walls, although yesterday's job still required boarding out with 6mm plasterboard to get it all flat enough before I put in the backsplash

Scrit

 

[jobsagooden]

I don't really follow the method of cutting the male joint up side down, and crawling around under worktop to mark joint. Why not:

When doing an inverted U shape (or you could call i a n shape?)
1. Cut females
3. place male worktop on cabinates
4. place females on top wedge at far end
5. mark the top of the male worktop (using a worktop scriber for extra speed) and cut

This surely will guarantee a perfect joint even if walls aren't square.

or am i missing something
:?: