cutting flooring around large complex shapes?

[SlowSteve]

Hello all.

This weekends task is to fit a solid wood floor into a tiny downstairs bathroom ( about 8 foot by 4 foot ).

I have got a weirdly shaped toilet and a pedastal for a corner sink which is at an angle to contend with.


In planning how I am going to cut out the flooring to fit around the existing furniture, I have been planning on making cardboard templates and then tracing them onto the flooring.

Is this the best way to go about it, or is there a better way?


Thanks

Steve

 

[SteveF]

Hi Steve

is it all tiled in place?

could u lift it enough to get flooring underneath?
either so u can mark around or even leave it there

even if u can get a sheet of paper under it

Steve

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Solid wood with loads of cut ends in a bathroom? Sure it's a good choice?

 

[SteveF]

Solid wood with loads of cut ends in a bathroom? Sure it's a good choice?

good point Phil

even more reason to lift them on top

Steve

 

[bugbear]

FIx a board (that will fit!) in the middle of your space,
and then use a pointed stick to mark each key point
(corners, etc) of the space on the board. This is done
by simply putting the end of the stick at each point,
with the rear of the stick on the board; mark
the position and angle of the stick on board.

Now move the board onto your workpiece,
(in a nice large space) and recreate each key point
by placing the stick in each
marked position, and marking the workpiece at the
point of the stick.

Boatbuilders (who often have to fit
stuff into confined areas of funny shape)
call this "spiling".

Slightly tedious, but a very powerful technique.

BugBear

 

[Graham Orm]

Boatbuilders (who often have to fit
stuff into confined areas of funny shape)
call this "spiling".

Slightly tedious, but a very powerful technique.

BugBear

Easier to demonstrate than explain BB. I've Dug up a good video that shows it done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L6irGUUKUE

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've done similar without knowing it. I've cut complex templets in small sections, marked where they fell on a larger piece and then taped everything together when I've done the lot.

 

[Billy Flitch]

First of there is no such trade as boat builder or boat wright the guy that builds a rowing boat or a yacht or a 100;000ton tanker is the same trade and its called a shipwright.The method that you are talking about is not called spilling or spoiling that's a different method of getting shapes, its true name is tick sticking I`m a old man now but when I was 18 years old a shipwright named George Calledwell showed me how to tick stick a bulk head and he was 93 years old when he showed me. I`v used it a lot in my life and it has made me a fair few bob. It`s just part of a shipwrights tool box

 

[bugbear]

First of there is no such trade as boat builder or boat wright the guy that builds a rowing boat or a yacht or a 100;000ton tanker is the same trade and its called a shipwright.

Opinions seem to vary; possibly regional variations, which is common with trade jargon?

This shipwright in Faversham also claims to be a boatbuilder.

http://www.alanstaleyboatbuilders.co.uk/

There's even a trade association;

http://www.thecba.org.uk/

College;

http://www.ibtc.co.uk/

BugBear

 

[blackrodd]

First of there is no such trade as boat builder or boat wright the guy that builds a rowing boat or a yacht or a 100;000ton tanker is the same trade and its called a shipwright.

Opinions seem to vary; possibly regional variations, which is common with trade jargon?

This shipwright in Faversham also claims to be a boatbuilder.

http://www.alanstaleyboatbuilders.co.uk/

There's even a trade association;

http://www.thecba.org.uk/

College;

http://www.ibtc.co.uk/

BugBear

I thought the difference between a ship, and a boat was the size.
Rodders

 

[blackrodd]

First of there is no such trade as boat builder or boat wright the guy that builds a rowing boat or a yacht or a 100;000ton tanker is the same trade and its called a shipwright.

Opinions seem to vary; possibly regional variations, which is common with trade jargon?

This shipwright in Faversham also claims to be a boatbuilder.

http://www.alanstaleyboatbuilders.co.uk/

There's even a trade association;

http://www.thecba.org.uk/

College;

http://www.ibtc.co.uk/

BugBear

I thought the difference between a ship, and a boat was the size.
Rodders

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Ships have boats on them.

 

[Billy Flitch]

Well Mr bugear I go back 50 years ago and a guy came into the gang where I learn t my trade and he introduced himself as a boatbuilder and the old guys I learn t my trade from never greeted him they just looked at the floor. When I asked them why they told me why, so I know and you dont .Look at the 3 examples you have given.

Mr Alan sa Staley introduces him self as Shipwright, boat builder, spar maker, em yes both parts of a shipwrights trade.
Canal boat builders assoc 1990 a long and Honorable assoc.
The education link you give advertizes jobs for shipwrights not boat builders.

Boatbuilder is a term the public wants to hear but the guy who does the job is a Shipwright Simple as that.

 

[bugbear]

The method that you are talking about is not called spilling or spoiling that's a different method of getting shapes, its true name is tick sticking

Perhaps another trade variation. George Ellis illustrates this technique (on p64 in my 1908 second edition of "Modern Practical Joinery"), recommends it for "fitting surfaces ... into polygonal openings" and he calls it (as did I) "Spiling".

Download the whole thing here;

http://wkfinetools.com/wWorking/z_readi ... oinery.asp

Perhaps shipwrights, carpenters and joiners each have their own cant. And of course, some name have more than one meaning, and some things have more than one name.

BugBear

 

[Billy Flitch]

Well then Mr Bugbear with your knowledge tell me what is a spilling or spoiling board how would you use it and what tools would you use to make it.May be when you google shipwright it might tell you.

 

[blackrodd]

Well back to the Original post, it seems to me to be hard work on faffing about, whatever system you should choose, in trying to mark out a toilet base and a w. h. basin pedestal accurately and more than likely spoiling the overall effect that a nice shiny floor would create, it should tuck under the existing skirting, with careful cutting and jiggleing.
If the replacement floor is the same thickness it may leave a better job by removing the china ware, fit the floor, Bish, Bash, Bosh, and re fit and connect the basin and bog!
Regards Rodders

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Of course, the floor usually isn't the same thickness, then nothing lines up. Some *** has invariably put everything in with steel screws, and they and the bolts between the cistern and the pan have seized solid.

 

[blackrodd]

Of course, the floor usually isn't the same thickness, then nothing lines up. Some *** has invariably put everything in with steel screws, and they and the bolts between the cistern and the pan have seized solid.

Mmm, Sounds about right, just like you've done a bit!
I try and keep away, But I end up sometimes doing these jobs anyway.
Regards Rodders

 

[SlowSteve]

thanks for this gentlemen,

i had not seen spiling before - it does look tedious, but also a way that will actually work. i will definately be giving that a go.


as for pulling up the floor - there is no chance of that. for reasons totally beyond my knowing, the previous owners, who were, in every other respect mr and mrs bodge-it, put the downstairs bathroon together with titanium screws. the key issue with this is that it would seem philips head titanium screws tear out pretty readily, but drilling them out is a nightmarish task due to titanium's immediate work hardening issues. every time i need to do anything in the downstairs loo, i have to use tungsten carbide milling cutting in an sds drill to make anything happen - no other way that i have found of getting the screws out....... i do not enjoy working like that.

add to that mrs steve's minature corner sink, which can only have been designed by a sadist who cackles at the idea of it being fitted, and the idea of moving the ceramics, or actually anything in the room, is a no-go.

i will have a go at the spiling and post some photos to see how it goes.

thanks

steve

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I would seriously consider the time spent moving the ceramics might be still less of a PITA than cutting weird shapes out it the floor. The thickness of the boards meeting the flares of the toilet bowl and sink pedestal always looks awful, unless you plan on undercutting all this too; a veritable nightmare! The boards will look better and last longer running right under all the obstacles and lay quicker, once the room is clear.

Incidentally, I always thought spiling was fairing in the boards to meet, on the outer hull of a boat/ship as they bent around the complex curves. I've also heard this has being called cold moulding, the same technique used but in different trades.

Mike.