Cutting against the grain

[RogerS]

I'm really seeking clarification of my understanding on this.

I know that when you plane a piece of timber that you need to take recognition of the direction of the grain and plane accordingly. Otherwise you may get tear-out of the wood (if that's the right term).

My assumption is that you need to chisel from the right direction for the same reasons. And that it doesn't matter whether your chisel is bevel up or down.

In other words, if you chisel into the grain then you stand a high probability of ripping up the wood and not getting a clean cut.

Is this correct?

Edit: Oops .sorry ..wrong area. Mods pls move. Thanks

 

[MIGNAL]

Yes. Of course in certain circumstances you have no option but to chisel or plane against the grain. The other option is to plane/chisel across the grain, which applies in certain situations and with some highly figured woods.

 

[RogerS]

Thanks Mignal...I should have mentioned it was green oak but I don't think that that can be described as difficult wood?

 

[Pete W]

In other words, if you chisel into the grain then you stand a high probability of ripping up the wood and not getting a clean cut.

Is this correct?

Further to what Mignal said, I think one of the key differences between planing and chiselling is that almost all chisel work is cross-grain - at least for smaller-scale working like cabinetmaking.

For boatbuilding and timber-framing I know that those hefty slicks get used like planes for rapid stock removal, but that's a use I have no practical experience of.

For joint-making and other applications on furniture-sized projects, the combination of cross-grain usage, and the fact that most chisel cuts are very limited in extent, mean that tearout is much less likely, I think.

 

[Paul Kierstead]

Just to throw in my CAD$0.02, chiselling against the grain bevel up is close to a sure recipe for diasaster, at least in my experience. The chisel will want to dive something fierce, making planing against the grain look like a walk in the part. Bevel down seems to offer a wee bit more control, but not a huge amount.

And then try a draw knife against the grain bevel up...

 

[David C]

Cross grain chiseling is essential for all joint cutting.

I refer to long grain cutting as "The Forbidden Direction".

It will lead to disaster unless the timber is perfectly straight grained or the cut is extremely short i.e. about 1/2 a mm, as in my "release" cuts.

The only application where it cannot be avoided, that I can think of at the moment, is the internal lap surface on a secret mitre, double lap or single lap dovetail.
Fortunately these are not glue surfaces, and a reqasonable surface may be obtained by ensuring that every "waste chopping" cut, goes to full depth.

David

 

[pam niedermayer]

...Bevel down seems to offer a wee bit more control, but not a huge amount.

I found out when I had to chisel out the interior of a shallow box sculptor that using them bevel down provided significant control, worked beautifully. It was an amazing discovery.

Pam

 

[dunbarhamlin]

For boatbuilding and timber-framing I know that those hefty slicks get used like planes for rapid stock removal, but that's a use I have no practical experience of.

(This) mandolin/bouzouki builder also finds his slick a great tool for rapid stock removal - unorthodox perhaps, but it can be used quite subtly and the heft means it tends to go wherever you point it (it is also a very good test for bench racking)

 

[bugbear]

Cross grain chiseling is essential for all joint cutting.

I refer to long grain cutting as "The Forbidden Direction".

Mike Abott doesn't, but he doesn't use chisels!!

BugBear

 

[Pete W]

(This) mandolin/bouzouki builder also finds his slick a great tool for rapid stock removal

Hi Dunbar,

Is this for sculpting instrument backs, or general stock removal? And - critically to the current discussion - do you use 'em across or with the grain?

Either way I can see how it would give a bench a bit of a spanking

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Hi Pete
For general stock removal - basically like a 9" bullnose scrub-on-a-stick.

So I don't use it for refining braces (mix of bench chisels, finger planes and the cutest ever scraper plane from St James Bay) but for sizing and gross flattening as well as roughing out necks. (I have yet to try my hand at a carved mandolin/guitar - I heat bend my backs just like bending the sides/ribs)

Depending what I'm doing, I use a mix of running with the grain, slicing or working diagonally; generally using the face just like a plane sole. I do some shaping bevel down, but it's a beast, so very easy to overdo it that way.

O - it won't fit in a honing guide
I find it easiest to draw a diamond stone across the bezel (so for ease I don't use a secondary bevel) and treat the face like a plane sole.

Cheers
Steve (Dunbar Hamlin)

 

[milkman]

Green Oak: I always use slicks across or at least diagonally. The only time I chisel with the grain is chamfering the end of a tenon or removing the waste for same and then only after a REALLY careful assessment of the grain.
If you get it right its way faster than rippng the tenon.

 

[David C]

BB,

are you by any chance referring to a Froe? ;-) spelling???

David