Customs declarations and brexit

[RobinBHM]

Alan, did you (or any similar thinking friends) give any consideration or thought to N Ireland, GFA, cross border cooperation, GB NI trade etc when voting for Brexit? Was it on anybody’s radar?

PS- well done on the bowl.

I have to be honest, I knew very little about Northern Ireland or the GFA before 2016. And it wasn't really a consideration in the referendum, I only became aware during the Theresa Mays "backstop" period.

And in fact I knew very little about the EU, the Single Market or Customs Union.

 

[Awac]

As you are asking Alan and similar, I assume you think all remainers voted to remain because of heavy consideration of the NI/GFA/etc.
I know your not thick, so I think we can agree that can't be the case.
Therefore a lot of remainers will have voted without giving Ireland a thought. But they are OK because they voted for what you wanted. So logically you are just pineappled because we voted against what you wanted, not that NI was or wasn't considered.

Remain voters didn't need to consider Ireland in voting as their vote wouldn't have caused any issues for NI.

Typically, English voters have no idea of the relationships of Uk/Ni/ROI, but leave voters seem to me to be wanting a return to the glory days of the empire (‘I just wish I was 21 again, frankly. Because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now. To be out there buccaneering trading, dominating the world again…’Sir Iain Duncan Smith). Jeez, read up on Irish history and see why comments like this are not helpful (I know you are not thick, so we can agree on that ). It almost makes you think that the Tory government wish to cause antagonism so they can close the borders and return to dominating again....

 

[Jake]

First tangible benefit is that we haven't been forced to join the Euro. There is no doubt in my mind if we had voted remain we would have been forced to join the Euro project.

That is 180 degrees wrong. We could not have been made to join the Euro as an existing MS. We had a veto and exercised an opt out.

We will now end up joining it when we rejoin in a decade or three, because it is mandatory for new entrants.

 

[Jacob]

As you are asking Alan and similar, I assume you think all remainers voted to remain because of heavy consideration of the NI/GFA/etc.
I know your not thick, so I think we can agree that can't be the case.
Therefore a lot of remainers will have voted without giving Ireland a thought. But they are OK because they voted for what you wanted. So logically you are just pineappled because we voted against what you wanted, not that NI was or wasn't considered.

My thoughts on NI was that EU membership (plus GFA) tended towards a trouble-free de-facto reunification of Ireland as the UK border became less significant - more historical than real.
Same could be said for the UK as a whole, the EU strengthened the Union as the political differences between the UK nations faded in significance under the broader aegis of the EU.
No threat to the cultural differences, if anything they would be liberated - the sting taken out of morris dancing, caber tossing, Cerdd Dant, and orange walks!
Brexit is intensely divisive, as we see.

 

[Noho12C]

The AZ vaccine was developed by Oxford uni with funds given by the UK government and is being produced in an AZ factory in the EU that was given a large investment from the UK on condition that the UK was supplied with the production.
This was a normal investment with a private company and the UK government but the EU seem to think that everybody else should take the risk and they can take the benefit

The Pfizer vaccine was (mostly) funded by the EU, yet EU has exported 13 millions doses to the UK.

The big issue here is the UK government blaming "vaccine nationalism", yet they have a contract that prevent any export until they have a full vaccination. Isnt that vaccine nationalism ?

The pot calling the kettle black...

 

[willsie01]

I hated Brexit but It's done. This thread has nowhere to go with that argument. Should be focusing on the fact our government are despotic rogues.

 

[willsie01]

With the way politics are in the U.K. at the moment it could be 47 years before we get rid of despotic governments:

I personally miss the freedom to work across the EU I had as a contractor. In my working life I had to take advantage of it when there wasn't any work in the U.K. Worked in Italy, Germany and Holland.

 

[planesleuth]

I started to read this thread but then fell asleep. Comments here are as bad as to be found on the BBC news. Full of 'experts' trying to score better points than the previous 'expert'. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Allowed? Where on Earth do you get the idea that the EU Commission has 'allowed' vaccine export? Vaccines have been purchased, paid for and exported by private companies according to contract law. Any detriment to 'their own people' is entirely down to the incompetence and greed of the EU Commission and this should not be a surprise to anyone, given their current EU Commission President.

Minor issue with that one - the EU contract with AZ was signed the day before the UK contract with AZ, but AZ claimed that the UK contract, being older, took precendence. So contract law has been put through a wringer by this whole mess, and it hasn't exactly "been cricket", so to speak, because in cricket, people object if the keeper pulls out a cosh and knocks out the batsman as the bowler runs up.

I may have mangled that analogy, cricket isn't exactly a popular sport here, I learned what I know of the rules of the sport from Douglas Adams. I still don't know where the alien spaceship bit comes in.

The other minor point that ought to be mentioned is that a lot of the vaccines are physically located within the EU in their various factories and storage facilities, and yes, the companies involved legally required permissions to export those vaccines, which they have gotten from the EU.

And it should be pointed out that that's not a universal thing - the US hasn't been exporting any (neither has the UK btw), and in general we - the entire human race, that is - have been the usual disappointment to our grandkids when it comes to vaccine distribution. Most of the guys I'm talking to daily in the US (I work for a MNC) are getting their jabs now, as are some in the UK, but if you're in Kenya, you're not getting a vaccine till sometime in 2023 at this rate.

And that's not some wishy-washy do-gooder ethics problem, to borrow a phrase, it's a gun to our heads because where do you think B117 came from? Or the newer variants that are arising? You don't vaccinate all eight billion of us, and all you're doing is leaving open the door for a new variant that maybe even the mRNA vaccines aren't effective against, and then we're right back to March 2020 again.

And the WHO have been warning about this for *months* now. It's one of the biggest risks they see over the next few years.

 

[DBT85]

I hated Brexit but It's done. This thread has nowhere to go with that argument. Should be focusing on the fact our government are despotic rogues.

Oh I'm SURE you'll get people saying they are delightful chaps.

 

[Jacob]

I hated Brexit but It's done. This thread has nowhere to go with that argument. Should be focusing on the fact our government are despotic rogues.

It's not done though.
Non of the magic trade deals promised have materialised - remember "oven ready deal" where on earth did that disappear to?
We are heading for a massive recession. Over the next few years much of the brexit damage will have to be undone.
The facts are staring us in the face but will be blamed on covid, European intransigence, unions, lazy workforce, or anything.

 

[silentsam]

The Pfizer vaccine was (mostly) funded by the EU, yet EU has exported 13 millions doses to the UK.

The EU haven't exported any vaccines, they don't own them. Companies within the EU have exported vaccines as per the contracts they made at the start of the pandemic.

 

[silentsam]

. Most of the guys I'm talking to daily in the US (I work for a MNC) are getting their jabs now, as are some in the UK, but if you're in Kenya, you're not getting a vaccine till sometime in 2023 at this rate.

There have only been 2000 deaths in Kenya vs 120,000+ in the UK so the priority should be the UK where more lives can be saved in the short term. Once the UK has finished vaccinating I do believe we should be helping poorer countries with out factories which I hear from the news is what is going to happen.

 

[Jacob]

I found the forms which set off this thread. Quite a lot of info required, with the implication that if incorrect the sale might fail. Not worth the candle I thought - on top of post & packing and general fiddling about, for a tiny profit of £3!
What are these forms then, if they are the wrong ones? Does anybody know?

 

[silentsam]

Minor issue with that one - the EU contract with AZ was signed the day before the UK contract with AZ, but AZ claimed that the UK contract, being older, took precendence.

Also, from my understanding this isn't quite true. The contract with AZ and the UK was signed the day before BUT the UK signed a contract with Oxford well before a producer of the vaccine (in this case AZ) was decided.

" The contract the European Commission negotiated together with the EU Member States was approved on 14 August and entered into force on 27 August. "

The contract the UK signed with Oxford was in June.

 

[Noel]

I found the forms which set off this thread. Quite a lot of info required, with the implication that if incorrect the sale might fail. Not worth the candle I thought - on top of post & packing and general fiddling about, for a tiny profit of £3!
What are these forms then, if they are the wrong ones? Does anybody know?
View attachment 107667View attachment 107668

Standard generic customs form, usually 5 copies individually signed. Used to use these before Trusted Trader/Trader Support online services.
And yes, any mistakes or inaccuracies generally held things up and you had to find an agent to go to where ever the shipment was and get it corrected, at about €50 an hour..........

 

[Noho12C]

The EU haven't exported any vaccines, they don't own them. Companies within the EU have exported vaccines as per the contracts they made at the start of the pandemic.

I see, I see.

So yes, the fact that UK is having a good vaccination progress is due to their vaccination nationalism mindset, where they signed a contract "me first". Though I still dont get why Johnson, Raab and Hancock keep blaming other countries for potential vaccine nationalism. Could that be hypocrisy ? I'm sure you will be able to give some insights.

EU is far from perfect (bureaucratic, slow, etc.) but at least hasn't been playing solo like the UK government has been. It's paying off now for this vaccination campaign, but I think (and hope) that EU and other countries (US among others) will remember this behavior.

 

[Jacob]

I see, I see.

So yes, the fact that UK is having a good vaccination progress is due to their vaccination nationalism mindset, where they signed a contract "me first". Though I still dont get why Johnson, Raab and Hancock keep blaming other countries for potential vaccine nationalism. Could that be hypocrisy ? I'm sure you will be able to give some insights.........

Hypocrisy, and they were having to cover their tracks urgently as they realised that their inertia and complacency was giving UK some of world's worst death rates.

 

[JohnPW]

I found the forms which set off this thread. Quite a lot of info required, with the implication that if incorrect the sale might fail. Not worth the candle I thought - on top of post & packing and general fiddling about, for a tiny profit of £3!
What are these forms then, if they are the wrong ones? Does anybody know?
View attachment 107667View attachment 107668

I would think you can leave a lot of the questions blank, simply because you don't have a passport/ID number, or you just don't know. Same goes for tariff numbers, country of origin etc.

It looks like the form is what couriers use, the Royal Mail form is much simpler.

 

[Jester129]

Scotty, PLEASE beam him up, he has asked for it!