custom chisels ideas please

[James carter]

toying with the idea of making some chisels ( brother has an engineering firm so have access to tool grinders etc )
So looking for ideas atm, is there anything anyone is struggling to get ? I was struggling to get mortice chisels a fee years ago but there seems to be a lot more on the market nowadays .Also struggling to find smaller cranked paring chisels . also is there anything that people atnt getting that they'd like say for example I think it's not acceptable that a lot of chisels don't come with a razors edge straight from the factory.I don't want to spend time sharpening something especially if I've paid a premium .
so any interesting ideas please and I have any success with the manufacture I'll send out some samples to interested people for testing feedback . thanks in advance James

 

[TRITON]

Draw lock chisels, skewed,swan necked mortice, or dovetail 'fishtail' are the only 'specialist' types i can think of.

 

[James carter]

Draw lock chisels, skewed,swan necked mortice, or dovetail 'fishtail' are the only 'specialist' types i can think of.

that's helpfull thanks for taking the time to reply !

 

[Against_The_Grain]

I don't want to spend time sharpening something especially if I've paid a premium .

Yes, but after a bit of use you will need to sharpen it anyway! The reason most don't put a razors edge on their chisels is because it's too time consuming and would make the chisels far too expensive, and the ones that do put a razors edge on do it so poorly you wish they hadn't done it because then you're spending time correcting their mess.

There's so many manufacturers of chisels, including the boutique and unusual ones, I'm not sure it would even be worthwhile starting to produce anything.

 

[James carter]

Yes, but after a bit of use you will need to sharpen it anyway! The reason most don't put a razors edge on their chisels is because it's too time consuming and would make the chisels far too expensive, and the ones that do put a razors edge on do it so poorly you wish they hadn't done it because then you're spending time correcting their mess.

There's so many manufacturers of chisels, including the boutique and unusual ones, I'm not sure it would even be worthwhile starting to produce anything.

perhaps but thats why i asked about things people were struggling to get .If nothing else it will be an learning exercise for me and my son as well who is autistic and has an interest in engineering . I originally wanted to make knives but his school have warned against that .the too expensive to aharpen argument doesn't hold with me as it takes me around 30seconds to put a secondary bevel on a chisel following Rob cosmans method . personally I'd rather they came sharp than in a rubbish tool roll or a rubbish box that I'm not going to use anyway

 

[James carter]

Yes, but after a bit of use you will need to sharpen it anyway! The reason most don't put a razors edge on their chisels is because it's too time consuming and would make the chisels far too expensive, and the ones that do put a razors edge on do it so poorly you wish they hadn't done it because then you're spending time correcting their mess.

There's so many manufacturers of chisels, including the boutique and unusual ones, I'm not sure it would even be worthwhile starting to produce anything.

perhaps it's always easier to find a reason not to do something than it is to find a reason to do something. Thats also why i asked about things people were struggling to get .If nothing else it will be an learning exercise for me and my son as well who has an interest in engineering or as he calls it making things . I originally wanted to make knives but his school have warned against that .the its too expensive argument doesn't hold with me as it takes me around 30seconds to put a secondary bevel on a chisel following Rob cosmans method .I just don't believe I should have to esp if we're talking top end chisels . personally I'd rather they came sharp than in a rubbish tool roll or a rubbish box that I'm not going to use anyway . if I buy a knife the more expensive it is the sharper it comes

 

[AJB Temple]

I would take a look at Lie Nielson tools. They limit their manufacturing as they don't want to over expand, and focus on local market first. Hence short supply in UK for many things. Their chisels are high quality, very expensive and supplied properly flattened and sharpened. if you could build a name for very high quality then you may well find a market.

Carving tools may also be a market. Again, the best brands are extremely expensive. The market size may be small but it sounds as if you are aiming for a niche as a cottage industry.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

.the too expensive to aharpen argument doesn't hold with me as it takes me around 30seconds to put a secondary bevel on a chisel following Rob cosmans method.

It is too expensive to do it properly, it may take 30 seconds on a pre-prepared chisel that has already been fettled flat and square, but most manufacturers with all their very expensive machinery struggle to produce the backs flat enough for fine use so leave them relatively rough and not flat, some like Ashley Iles purposely produce them concave because it is far easier than producing them flat and more desirable than convex.

To do it properly as you want to and earn money you would need to be charging in the region of £100 or more per chisel. I would recommend watching videos on YouTube of professional chisel manufacturers to see what you’re up against. I’m not being negative but realistic.

 

[AJB Temple]

A set of 4 Blue Spruce chisels from CHT is £425. Perfectly flat and razor sharp. Low volume manufacturer and very high quality. As that is retail price the cost of production is a lot lower. I compare with Japanese Artisan makers. There is a market for the finest quality tools but it is necessary to focus on building a brand right from the start.

 

[woodbloke52]

Don't bother making some 'custom' chisels; treat yourself a set of the Narex 'Richter' chisels from Workshop Heaven. I've had and disposed of two sets of expensive Japanese chisels which are far too cumbersome (in my very 'umble opinion) for cabinet work. The quality of the steel is quite excellent but that's offset by the clunkiness of the blade and the appalling metal hoop thing at the end of the handle, which makes it extremely uncomfortable for fine paring. Great if you need to build a Japanese temple, but otherwise forget them.
The 'Richter' chisels made from superb cryogenically hardened steel and will take a super fine edge. More to the point, they keep it! I read a review some time ago about a maker who used LN chisels and bought some Richters as a second set. He was so impressed, he ended up using them instead to the LN's - Rob

 

[AJB Temple]

Woodbloke - I think you misunderstood: he's looking to make some chisels and presumably plans to sell them as he intends to manufacture and produce samples.

Interesting experience. I had a "chisel phase" and have a sample of most things. I have tried the Narex Richter, and gave them away as I detested the handles and I found the edges chipped easily and finish was poor. Functional but that's all. My main users for bench woodwork are LN socket chisels which are very easy to get razor sharp as are Blue Spruce. I have quite a few Japanese chisels bought in Japan, and I like them too but they work best with a light hammer and take a bit of getting used to. It's not compulsory to have metal hoop handles. I built up a lot of carving chisels for doing letter work and so on, and learnt that I only use a handful really and they need to be quite delicate.

If you want to manufacture chisels, it's pointless competing with the volume guys like Narex. Needs to be niche and premium to have any hope of making a return I think.

 

[woodbloke52]

I have tried the Narex Richter, and gave them away as I detested the handles and I found the edges chipped easily and finish was poor. Functional but that's all. My main users for bench woodwork are LN socket chisels which are very easy to get razor sharp as are Blue Spruce.

You must have got a 'Friday Afternoon' set of Richters Adrian! Mine are quite superb and far preferable to Japanese chisels. I also had the LN things years ago when they were relatively 'cheap' and couldn't get on with them, so they got flogged - Rob

 

[AJB Temple]

Could be. When I said "gave them away" what I meat was eldest son liked them fine and dandy and permanently borrowed them.

The only thing I don't like about the LNs is that the handles come out of their sockets too easily. As for J chisels I like Japanese tools generally and kitchen knives, so it's an emotional thing really. My dad gave me a set of Footprint chisels when I was around 10. Red plastic handles and frankly the steel on those is excellent and I still use them. He was actually quite good at choosing tools and I still have all sorts of stuff from my first little tool collection. To a large extent a chisel is a chisel - the operator is what counts

 

[woodbloke52]

To a large extent a chisel is a chisel - the operator is what counts

It's not Adrian. You've probably never used a cheap n'nasty Far Eastern thing where the edge folds or crumbles as soon as it's touched a bit of wood; the only thing it's useful for is opening paint cans - Rob

 

[James carter]

Don't bother making some 'custom' chisels; treat yourself a set of the Narex 'Richter' chisels from Workshop Heaven. I've had and disposed of two sets of expensive Japanese chisels which are far too cumbersome (in my very 'umble opinion) for cabinet work. The quality of the steel is quite excellent but that's offset by the clunkiness of the blade and the appalling metal hoop thing at the end of the handle, which makes it extremely uncomfortable for fine paring. Great if you need to build a Japanese temple, but otherwise forget them.
The 'Richter' chisels made from superb cryogenically hardened steel and will take a super fine edge. More to the point, they keep it! I read a review some time ago about a maker who used LN chisels and bought some Richters as a second set. He was so impressed, he ended up using them instead to the LN's - Rob

May well all be true but I want to make some as an experiment . I already own a few sets of decent ish chisels . ashley iles and Robert sorby . vintage marples and richter mortice is next on the list to buy . you can never have too many tools though

 

[James carter]

Woodbloke - I think you misunderstood: he's looking to make some chisels and presumably plans to sell them as he intends to manufacture and produce samples.

Interesting experience. I had a "chisel phase" and have a sample of most things. I have tried the Narex Richter, and gave them away as I detested the handles and I found the edges chipped easily and finish was poor. Functional but that's all. My main users for bench woodwork are LN socket chisels which are very easy to get razor sharp as are Blue Spruce. I have quite a few Japanese chisels bought in Japan, and I like them too but they work best with a light hammer and take a bit of getting used to. It's not compulsory to have metal hoop handles. I built up a lot of carving chisels for doing letter work and so on, and learnt that I only use a handful really and they need to be quite delicate.

If you want to manufacture chisels, it's pointless competing with the volume guys like Narex. Needs to be niche and premium to have any hope of making a return I think.

agree thankyou . I don't know if it will stack up financially yet I havnt even priced the steel etc but will make a few and see how much they cost each

 

[James carter]

It is too expensive to do it properly, it may take 30 seconds on a pre-prepared chisel that has already been fettled flat and square, but most manufacturers with all their very expensive machinery struggle to produce the backs flat enough for fine use so leave them relatively rough and not flat, some like Ashley Iles purposely produce them concave because it is far easier than producing them flat and more desirable than convex.

To do it properly as you want to and earn money you would need to be charging in the region of £100 or more per chisel. I would recommend watching videos on YouTube of professional chisel manufacturers to see what you’re up against. I’m not being negative but realistic.

I can't agree with the first part of your statement but i only have experience of a few brand but the ones ive got are nog far off of flat and square however the second part I agree with. Will be fun to try and make some through . I like the idea of a shorter butt chisel with a longer japanese style handle .like the narex japanese dovetail chisels but with westernstyle blades

 

[James carter]

Could be. When I said "gave them away" what I meat was eldest son liked them fine and dandy and permanently borrowed them.

The only thing I don't like about the LNs is that the handles come out of their sockets too easily. As for J chisels I like Japanese tools generally and kitchen knives, so it's an emotional thing really. My dad gave me a set of Footprint chisels when I was around 10. Red plastic handles and frankly the steel on those is excellent and I still use them. He was actually quite good at choosing tools and I still have all sorts of stuff from my first little tool collection. To a large extent a chisel is a chisel - the operator is what counts

have a fold out stanley thing I use for beating out nails and screws and it's hard as nails been abusing it for the past 20 years .Still solid as a rock . bought a mhg mid priced one to try out it snapped straight down the length in about 3months of medium hard abuse