Cross Grain Dovetails how to make it work?

[urbanarcher]

hi i want to use crown cut boards on the front of some drawers with the grain running vertically and would like to cut dovetails. I started this process today and have found the pins will be incredibly weak. (yes i am still learning and did realise they might be weak but didn't realise how weak) has anybody got any suggestions for this situation how to make dovetails work or any useful advice would be gratefully accepted.

 

[Peter Sefton]

This will be very weak, and not something I would recommend if you want the effect of the grain running up through the drawer fronts, have you considered veneering them? or are you trying this method for another reason?

Cheers Peter

 

[adidat]

the only way i can think to do this is to make up dovetailed draw boxes then put on false front.

adidat

 

[urbanarcher]

Thanks peter
Well i would consider veneering them except i now have drawer fronts cut with the grain running nicely throughout the drawers from top to bottom is there another type of traditional joint that would be more suitable? The one i started cutting i can cut in a piece, i had stopped dovetails in mind but the joint clearly wont work. I have access to radial arm saw, table saw, slot and hollow chisel morticer, router, and regular hand tools. any suggestions how to not waste those nice drawer fronts i just cut?

 

[Peter Sefton]

Maybe a bare faced tongue? it’s unusual but possible

Cheers Peter

 

[urbanarcher]

adidat
That's a good suggestion that i may have to consider if i cant find another solution, the only downside to that is the draw fronts will be quite thick then i guess. well i could find a way to thickness them maybe someone with a 15" wide thicknesser and a little ingenuity. There must be another way?? that i cant think of well to be true i didn't even think of the box and front till mentioned.

 

[urbanarcher]

Peter
Bare faced tongue is this?

with the drawer front being the piece on the right?
would the little surface area on the joint none being long grain on long grain produce enough gluing strength for pulling a girlfriend's clothes laden drawer in and out numerous times a day? and would the little edge lip be likely to break off? I'm concerned that this joint might not stand up well to the day to day use.

 

[Peter Sefton]

If you use this joint it will have better glue strength that the one shown as this has a lot of end grain gluing and yours has better side grain to side gluing because of your grain direction change to the norm. But I must say it is not the best construction for drawer fronts. Your drawer fronts may be prone to bowing and movement issues we would not get from a traditional grain direction and jointing.

Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

..has anybody got any suggestions for this situation how to make dovetails work ....

Yes. Stick on (set in) false dovetail shaped veneers.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Jacob do you mean veneer splines? as I call them.

Peter

 

[knappers]

I would rip the fronts down to say 5mm thick on a bandsaw and use them as false veneer fronts over a through dovetail box.

Si

 

[Jacob]

Jacob do you mean veneer splines? as I call them.

Peter

I just meant make the boxes one way or another and then add fake cosmetic DTs. Could cover the nail heads? Or do as Si says above.
But a functioning structural cross grain DT is an obvious non starter.

 

[Benchwayze]

Rebate the ends of the drawer fronts to the inside, to take the linings. Then either dowel the sides to the fronts, or fit a square peg of a dark timber into the round hole. Experiment in scrap to get the right drill size that will allow you to hammer in the square dowel/peg.

I would even consider putting the pegs in so they exhibit a 'diamond' shape. The effect will look intentional and effective, and the dowels will be going into good solid side grain, and will resist the pull on the drawer front.

Next time I would consider planning the job to use a whole sheet of veneer applied to the drawer-fronts, so that you get your continuity of grain pattern.

Full marks for trying for originality all the same. :wink: .
HTH

John

 

[andersonec]

If you have a table saw and router try this one

 

[Sgian Dubh]

No-one seems to have mentioned the possibility that drawer fronts with verically running grain could expand and contract unacceptably meaning that during late winter the drawers are sloppy in the opening (left to right), and tight during summer when the wood expands due to moisture uptake. It does depend on the width of the drawers and the wood species used just how likely these circumstances are likely to happen. There may even be some expansion and contraction issues between the drawer fronts and the drawer sides, again depending on drawer box size. And yes, the dovetailed construction originally proposed isn't a good choice due to their inherent weakness during construction, assembly, and in service. Slainte.

 

[Peter Sefton]

. But I must say it is not the best construction for drawer fronts. Your drawer fronts may be prone to bowing and movement issues we would not get from a traditional grain direction and jointing.

Cheers Peter

 

[urbanarcher]

square peg of a dark timber into the round hole

Are you pulling my leg lol
The Rebate and using some type of dowel seems quite interesting i might have a little play with that on some practice boards. I'm quite tempted to rip down the drawer fronts and use them as false fronts then i'll have enough draw fronts for three more chests and avoid the possibility of too much bowing and expansion. now if only i had a bandsaw that would rip 175mm and a nice drum sander. sadly i have neither. The lock joint is a maybe too, but i think i might have to ask a favour of another member to see if i can rip down the fronts.

 

[Benchwayze]

Nope. Not pulling your leg. Take a look at Kelly Mehler's video on making a cherry table.
He decorates his M&T in this fashion. .

Round the square pegs to start them in the holes and then tap them in until they make the hole square too. You could mess around with a small chisel if you wish though, and square the holes first. But hey the days are too short at my time of life! :lol:

John