Craft fair cost

[Chippygeoff]

This post is in answer to those who made comments on my other post, ripped off. Some craft fairs can be very costly and it's sad that there are now people who make a living running craft fairs and ripping off the people who attend them. I am in contact with other scrollers all over the country who go to craft fairs so I get a lot of info on prices etc. About a year ago we had a couple of ladies who decided to run a craft fair. I won't name them but if they read this they will know who they are. If you are not a member it's £25 for a table, £50 for two. To be a member cost £50 and the cost of each table is then reduced to £20. The hall that they hire cost £160 for the day and they can get 40 tables set up quite comfortably so at the end of the day they are making round about £1000, not bad for a days work. They have contacted me a couple of times asking me to go as they said they have no one doing wood. I obviously refused and laid into them about ripping people off and how they were laughing all the way to the bank. They said they spent the profits on advertising. I have never seen one advert from them.

I am very fortunate with the main venue I attend. £5 for up to three tables, but it's just gone up to £7. On top of that there is the cost of the fuel to get there and back. When calculating the overall cost we also have to take into account our running cost at home, electricity, blades, abrasives, finishing materials etc etc. If I were to buy the Hegner that I have today I would be looking at £1200, a ridiculous price to pay for a scroll saw but mine has paid for itself many times over.

I don't really class what I do as running a business. As you know I am disabled. When I had to give up work as a carpenter/joiner I had so much time on my hands it was driving me mad so I bought a lathe and a scroll saw and everything that went with it but when I moved home I did not have room for everything so the lathe had to go as there are hundreds of wood turners in my area all making the same sort of things but not doing very well at craft fairs, whereas there is no one doing what I do within the area that I live and even if there was they would not be a threat as the craft fair organiser would not have two stalls selling the same sort of thing.

I really love the time I spend in the workshop and the craft fairs are a means of selling what I make. If I did not do the craft fairs then the things I make would just pile up and gather dust. I am very happy with the profit I make. I do not add my time when pricing items but I more than cover my running cost and I am happy with that. I am not out there to make huge profits, I am not greedy like that. Because my prices are very reasonable I sell a lot of stuff. It keeps me busy.

 

[scrimper]

To be honest it amazes me that anyone can make a profit or even pay their way making and selling hand made craft stuff such as fretwork, I imagine that it's more a labour of love than a way of making a few 'bob'.

One can spend hours cutting out a nice piece and people will say "oh isn't that brilliant' but they think that as you made it yourself it ought to be cheap and they won't pay much for it!

All the stuff I make is usually kept for our own use or given away to friends, I don't have the time to attend craft fairs or such like but I do have admiration for people who do and I hope that people continue to do this, I have often felt that it would be nice to be at a craft fair with an exhibition of ones work whilst sitting operating a Treadle machine or hand frame and making a few small items to show people how it's done.

What upsets me is when I see intricate fretwork items in the local garden centre for 'peanuts' that has been mass produced in China, probably by an automated machine, Joe public would rather buy this for small money than pay a reasonable price for decent hand crafted work.

Some years ago when I had my own business I did make some wooden toys such as pull along bunnies etc and put them in the shop window for sale but some jealous rival reported me to trading standards who visited and inspected the products for safely, they were more than happy that the goods were safe but advised me I would need to get them tested and they would need to carry a CE label, the testing would cost a huge amount of money so I just stopped selling the items. I didn't need to make money selling the toys I just did it to see what the reaction was and if they would sell but considering the time and effort I don't understand how anyone can make money selling craft items.

 

[Chippygeoff]

Hi Scrimper. Many thanks for your comments. I do make a very good profit and it's just as well as it more than pays for everything I need to carry on the scroll saw work and also provide a few of lifes luxuries. Every time I attend a craft fair I get loads of comments like, do you actually make all this stuff, Oh it's lovely, never seen work like it. There is a lot going in my favour. I get wood at a very good price. I have very little cost with regard to venues and I live quite close to all the craft fairs.

Yes, a lot of people can spend hours making an item and never realise the true value of it when it goes up for sale, that is why nearly everything I make is quick and easy. I do have a few intricate items on display but that is more to show people what scrolling in all about than anything else and the price I put on these items make most people shy away from buying them.

I would dearly love to have one of the old treadle saws that I could take to the craft fairs and demonstrate to the punters but I could not physically lift it and also I would not have room for it in the car. Talking of China. I was in a well known garden centre last Christmas and they had a very nice looking nativity set there complete with lighting. What they were selling for I could not buy the wood for and you can bet your lifre they were making at least 100% profit on it. China has ruined a lot of small businesses. Personally they are no threat to me for I mostly make name signs.

It's a shame you had to stop making your pull along bunnies, I can imagine the appeal for them as they were individual and hand made, something people could not buy in the shops. There is a lot of red tape. I to make some childrens toys, none of which carry a CE label. I have child safe finishes and on things like animal jigsaws I have no finish at all as small children tend to put things in their mouths. Also I do not have public liability insurance. I was told by someone who was selling this insurance that if someone got a splinter from one of my items they could sue me. In all the years I have been doing this none of my customers or me has had a splinter, everything I make when finished is as smooth as a babies bottom.

 

[mind_the_goat]

I think the term 'rip off' only applies when have no choice, you took a decision not to pay £25 for a table, other people decided it was worth it. Do you think you were also ripped off for your Hegner just because other scroll saws cost less?
I get the impression you are looking at all these prices assuming people are just doing a hobby, some people choose running craft fairs as their only source of income, I'd rather they charged enough to make a profit rather than charge less and claim benefits to make up the shortfall. At £7 a table, have you worked out what that would bring in for the organisers ? Take out hire fees, insurance, advertising, not much left I imagine. Is it held in a village hall which is paid for out of council tax?
From the way you talk it seems like you do this as a hobby and any money made is a bonus, that's great, I'm happy you have found a pastime that you enjoy and is pays for itself, but, If I lived near you and wanted to make a living doing what do I'd probably be posting notes here complaining about being undercut by hobbyists who didn't need to charge realistic prices, and those people who buy in stuff made for peanuts in the Far East. Also are you you not letting yourself be ripped off by selling cheap ?

Don't want to have a go at you but don't be bitter about people trying to earn a crust, or even a whole pie.

 

[scrimper]

A view that I have always held is that no matter what hobby you are involved in whether it be Fretwork or music or knitting, whatever, it does not really matter how good you are at it or whether you make money from it or even if it costs money, the main thing is that you enjoy what you are doing, nothing else really matters. Yes if you are very good at doing your hobby or make money then it's a bonus but for my part I would rather have a hobby that I love and enjoy doing than be expert at something but not actually get pleasure from doing so.

As an example if you do oil painting and are hopeless at painting but enjoy every moment then that must be better than being brilliant but bored!

If one has a hobby that they love and make a little money from it then basically one has hit the jackpot in my opinion.

 

[Woodchips2]

Sounds like Geoff has got it spot on for him which is good to hear in these days of very depressing news.Well done. =D> =D>
Regards Keith

 

[Claymore]

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[Chippygeoff]

Thanks for your comments John and Kieth. Rob. I cannot make much sense from your post. I pay £7 for up to 3 tables, not one. The two ladies I mentioned have other means of income and I still say they are ripping people off, especially when a lot of the stall holders fail to take enough money to pay for the tables, you may say why do they go then. A lot of them go because they enjot the company of the other stall holders and the atmosphere that a craft fair generates.

The prices I charge for the things I make are what the local people can afford to pay and I would rather sell at my current prices and sell lots of things than putting my prices up and not selling anything. As I said before. I am the only one selling scroll saw work so I am undercutting no one. As for buying stuff from China don't you think it defeats the term craft fair. Most craft fairs only have stall holders that actually make the stuff they sell, hence "Craft Fair." People that buy stuff in from China should have a stall at the local market rather than a local craft fair.

With regard to my Hegner. Yes. I feel I paid way over the odds for it as many others do. Unfortunately here in the UK there is not much choice, you either buy a far eastern imported saw or buy a Hegner, there is nothing in between. A cheap saw would never produce the work that I make and also it would not last very long with the workload that I have. My Hegner can be working 8 hours a day without even a hiccup and it does so time and time again. In the 2 years that I have had my present hegner I have only had one very minor problem. On the forum we are hearing from guys with cheap saws on a regular basis about the problems they are experiencing with the cheaper saws but you very rarely here about a problem with a Hegner. With my work I need a saw that is very reliable and won't let me down when I need it most.

 

[nadnerb]

Just a quick note.
I fully agree with Geoff about being ripped off. the average price for a table for a small craft fair here in Ireland is about €20-25. This is for EACH table. I am only starting at thee selling caper and and trying different places. In one venue I was asked for €200.00 for three days and I would have to supply my own tables, tent,insurance etc. which in my book is bloody scandalous.
Regards
Brendan

 

[Dominik Pierog]

To be honest it amazes me that anyone can make a profit or even pay their way making and selling hand made craft stuff such as fretwork, I imagine that it's more a labour of love than a way of making a few 'bob'.

One can spend hours cutting out a nice piece and people will say "oh isn't that brilliant' but they think that as you made it yourself it ought to be cheap and they won't pay much for it!

I don't sell scroll saw stuff I make it for fun.
It's really hard have free time and money for hobby.

One can spend hours cutting out a nice piece and people will say "oh isn't that brilliant'

More depressing is underestimating(I mean the comments, feedback, motivation.) the work involved. Sometimes a few months.

 

[xraymtb]

Simple answer...If you're not happy paying it then don't. If they have genuinely over estimated the value of a table in the market then they don't get the sellers and their business fails. You begrudge the organisers making profit - why shouldn't they if you are making profit? Should they do it out of goodwill so all the sellers can make money?

 

[jamiecrawford]

I paid £70 for two days at a well known Christmas fair in Kent, in a huge 14th century tithe barn, as a last minute replacement for someone who bailed. In hindsight I should have asked for a reduced fee but I was desperate to sell my wares - mirrors, shelves, candle holders from reclaimed timber - and expected a good weekend as I knew other crafters who made a killing there. First buggeration was I wasn't in the barn but in a stable on the side, second was that the people making the money were selling stuff for under a tenner. I found the same thing at other craft fairs. I did sell some pieces, but generally it seems to me that most people are happy to drop a fiver or tenner but like to consider spending on bigger items.... Then rarely come back. Of course, it may be that my stuff is old toot

 

[mind_the_goat]

second was that the people making the money were selling stuff for under a tenner.)

Maybe people selling here had spent the year making things as a hobby and could well afford to sell them all off at cost, or less. did you see any evidence of 'made in China' items? Just curious if the these events favour hand made in UK items, or, most likely, don't care as long as they sell the table space. This is fair enough I guess but it does suggest that in these cases it's Seller Beware.

 

[jamiecrawford]

There are always people, from what I've seen, passing off mass produced cack as either there own, or locally made. I always got outsold by ladies selling ear rings or home made jam! Must have the wrong hobby.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

One of my friends does a lot of fabric work and jewellery, and she says there is one person who's doing the rounds for a few years locally in the summer selling "Cornish" silverware that every other maker knows is Indian. The cost alone is the give away - when you see someone selling an item and making a profit for less than the manufacturing costs. Personally I'd shop them - I don't know why my friend doesn't.

 

[Claymore]

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[mind_the_goat]

and the vinegar doesn't half make ya eyes water!

I find it best not to put vinegar in your eyes
Buying a bike from your wares is pretty good, a good reward for a lot of hard work.

 

[Stuart]

I am retired and have enough income to enjoy my woodworking without having to sell the toys and other wooden things I make to cover my costs and time, instead I give them to charities who sell them to raise money. My satisfaction is seeing the joy on a child's face, and parents, when they handle and run their fingers over a well finished wooden toy.
However we dispose of our work, by selling at a profit or loss or by giving away we are sharing our love for wood with others and that is what I want to pass on.

 

[jonluv]

Very true Stuart -- I gave 23 toys to the reception class at a local school on Friday and it was really fulfilling to see the kiddies enjoying simple wooden toys

John