Course Grinding with Waterstones?

[wizer]

Hello

I have been playing with water stones for the first time today. I'm following David C's 4th DVD.

The chisels I am sharpening/practicing on are of the cheap Lidl Variety. These have had some heavy DIY use since I bought them and as such have some severe 'dings'.

These photos where taken once I'd gone through the whole DC process:

So my question is: How do I sort this out? Do I carry on (forever) on the 800 grit waterstone? Buy a courser stone? Or is this pointless by hand and should I buy a powered grinder?

TIA

 

[TonyW]

I am certainly no expert on this subject- so until someone who is comes along this is what I think I would do.

Grind out the dings to get a straight square edge

Regrind the primary bevel if nec.

Then go to your waterstones to flatten and sharpen.

I think you would be at it forever if you tried to do all this with just water stones

Cheers
Tony

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Once prepared, if sharpened/honed regularly, you won't need much in the way of grinding, so unless you want a grinding wheel, I'd grind back to good with 120 grit SiC paper - I find this less of a pain to use than a very course waterstone (I've got a Norton 240 - but too friable for me) and won't scar the tool as deeply as a very coarse diamond stone can. (And, as it's an occasional requirement only, paper's cheap enough)

There's plenty with more and better experience than I here though - so hang fire for the Words of Wisdom from the Great and the Good.

Cheers
Steve

 

[J D Architectural Joinery]

can I ask what stone you are using

 

[tnimble]

I once had a cheap(ish) power grinder but misplaced it. I never bothered -- I never very much liked power grinders -- to go out on a quest to rediscover it somewhere in the attic where its probably hiding.

I use a coarse 220 norton waterstone (I currently have a replacement in transit from Lee Valley) and a 250 grit diaqmond stone. Onlt very hard and wide edged tools take long to remove serious nicks.

A power grinder would do that much quicker but with lesser control, risk over heating the tool, causing sparks and blown around metal dust and making alot of noise.

 

[woodbloke]

Once prepared, if sharpened/honed regularly, you won't need much in the way of grinding, so unless you want a grinding wheel, I'd grind back to good with 120 grit SiC paper - I find this less of a pain to use than a very course waterstone (I've got a Norton 240 - but too friable for me) and won't scar the tool as deeply as a very coarse diamond stone can. (And, as it's an occasional requirement only, paper's cheap enough)

There's plenty with more and better experience than I here though - so hang fire for the Words of Wisdom from the Great and the Good.

Cheers
Steve

I think I'd go down this route as well. I would use a fix of Spraymount or similar onto a bit of 6mm float glass...should get the dings out fairly smartly. The Tormek or similar will do the job but if you haven't got one this will do it for a lot less - Rob

 

[wizer]

I don't fancy shelling out for a Tormek and wouldn't want to waste bench space with a grinder. I'm not completely sold on the water stone idea yet, so wouldn't want to buy another stone for this task.

I take it SiC Paper is just standard Wet and Dry? I'll pop out tomorrow and get some.

Many thanks

 

[David C]

Yes, SiC paper is wet and dry.

Good effort there, but without regrinding a 25 or 23 degree bevel on a nice coarse abrasive you are wasting your time on an 800g waterstone.

This blade needs grinding up to and past the edge to remove the large chips, before starting with 800g.

best wishes,
David

 

[wizer]

I managed to grind away the dings (eventually) with W&D. Annoyingly, B&Q only sell W&D in assorted packs with just 1 sheet of 180g in each. So I'm going to have to seek out a better supplier. Only another 7 chisels to go!

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

should I buy a powered grinder?

TIA

IMHO the powered high speed dry grinder is the single most important power tool in the shop. I have an article coming out in the next issue of FWW on how to grind - it's not hard and learning the technique takes 10 minutes to learn. I can't imagine spending the time on sandpaper and it's liberating to be able to straighted out dings etc in a minute or two.

Joel

 

[Philly]

Wizer
Halfords sell a wide range of wet and dry, if its any help?
Cheers
Philly

 

[Karl]

Wizer

I bought the Perform grinder with the white 40mm wide wheel for about £30, IIRC. It is excellent at re-grinding, as long as you remember to frequently cool the blade in water. I also bought the Veritas adjustable jig, but you could easily make your own.

You will quickly get through £30 worth of W&D. It doesn't last two minutes.

Cheers

Karl

 

[wizer]

Joel: Thanks I will make sure I read that.

Karl: I will certainly think about a grinder, not sure I want to dedicate the space to it. Maybe Joel's article will change my mind!

Philly: D'oh, why didn't I think of Halfords!

Thankyou

 

[tnimble]

You will quickly get through £30 worth of W&D. It doesn't last two minutes.

IN that case you would certainly be using the wrong kind of W&D with soft or loose grit. There is W&D designed to flatten painted surfaces before the final coat, ther's W&D designed for pre-posiling metal and theres W&D designed for shaping and scouring metal.

 

[wizer]

Can you suggest a source for the right stuff?

 

[jonbikebod]

WiZeR
If you are not too far from Orpington, you are welcome to come over, try out my Tormek, dry grinder, water stones, diamond stones, ceramic stones and various wet & dry on granite surface tables. As you will have read, there are almost as many sharpening/grindin as members of this forum. The only way to find out what suits you is to try them. I have gone through that process over the years; you are welcome to try them out without needing to buy them all first…
Jon.

 

[tnimble]

Can you suggest a source for the right stuff?

Try to look out for 3M 483W Also 658WY is very good but more expense I use that mainly for shaping glass. I buy everything online, prices are mostly lower and you known what you get instead of only having the choice of what the store thinks custemers need.

 

[wizer]

Jon that's a very kind offer. I'm going to persevere with the waterstones for a bit. I'm considering going for diamond stones if waterstones don't work out. I'm not too far from you, so I'll keep you in mind for a comparison test.

 

[wizer]

tnimble: I have had a good goole around and can't find either of your suggested products. Where do you buy from?

 

[jonbikebod]

Always welcome WiZeR,
It might help to consider this as two separate issues; grinding the primary bevel and honing the cutting edge. In cabinet making you wouldn’t expect to get nicks out of the cutting edge under normal circumstances. Grinding the primary bevel is then more a matter of not having to remove too much metal when honing.
To remove deep nicks as you have, a lot of metal needs to be removed. Some people use a belt sander/linisher for this, which is slower running than a dry grind stone and with a sharp new belt is less likely to overheat the cutting edge. With a wet wheel there is no danger of this at all.
If you are using muscle power then abrading over a larger area speeds things up. If you have a large flat surface to stick abrasive paper or emery cloth to, this will win over the limited surface area of a diamond stone. (Try eBay for materials).
It is the honing that where the greatest diversity of ideas lie and I suspect that is down to different people’s philosophies. I can recommend David’s approach to start with as it has been specifically developed to give quick reliable results with very modest investment.
Jon.