Coronavirus

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Chris152":f7oa72ho said:
UK now set to be the worst hit country in Europe.

Chris, what is it that makes you feel this is the case? I am asking as I feel no one knows or will do for some time so am I missing something?

To take a different tack one thing I find particularly perplexing is what those people who are being turned back from trying to visit the Lake District or travelling 200 miles for a fishing trip don’t understand about the instruction to stay at home.
 
........failure to procure essential equipment in good time in spite of forewarning, and while other governments were doing exactly that.


The NHS procure their own stuff. This isn't a government or ministerial responsibility. The fact is, the NHS hadn't bought or stockpiled enough stuff, and it took the government effort, with the army, to sort the situation out.
It's not sorted out - haven't you been watching the news?

You haven't linked that to Newport. Have you any evidence that government decisions have directly caused staff illnesses in Newport?
No, I'll have to go and do some primary research to make that proof. However, in the meantime, since it's just one part of a larger picture in the Uk I'd say it's highly likely the situation in Newport is part of the same larger problem.

Can you point to any countries which haven't had front line health workers affected by this virus?
No, it's a question of degree.

Arrogance - failure to review quickly enough a strategy that allowed the virus to take hold in spite of clear warnings from international experts.


Can you list the countries that acted in time and so didn't have any corona virus deaths?
Again, it's a question of degree. Surely you know that and are just trying to win a lazy point?

And you haven't linked this to Newport.
Maybe you could advise how I might link countries that acted in time and have had no deaths from the virus to Newport. I'm at a loss as to why I'd try.

And it continues.


Well, you've nothing so far, so it isn't "continuing", so much as starting.
I guess you've missed the point of 'it continues'. I was indicating that the lack of action to adequately stop the spread of the virus continues.

Still people are encouraged to go to work if they cannot work from home.


No they're not. Are you determined to twist everything? Have you some sort of agenda?
Yes they are - it's here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nd-cant-do and govt's been actively encouraging it.

And how does this directly affect the number of NHS staff off work in Newport?
Well, it's maybe a bit complex Mike, but the more people leaving home to go to work, the more chance of the virus spreading, according to the govt's own logic. Especially when so many workers are clearly unable to keep safe distances etc (plenty of media coverage on that). But you're right, again I've failed to conduct research that demonstrates beyond doubt that NHS staff in Newport are directly affected by that.

Economy - which is crashing anyway - prioritised over lives.


The economy crashing is a deliberate choice to try to save lives. Surely you had noticed that? Or are those goggles you wear so distorting your view of the world that you can't see anything at all?
Not sure about the goggles you allude to, but my point was that since the economy's crashing anyway, why not tighten further the lock down to further limit spread of the virus as has happened in some other European countries.

I can't abide stupidity


That's not obvious. Your arguments fall firmly into that category. You are arguing by assertion, rather than by providing evidence and logic.
Well, I'll go and gather evidence to prove unequivocal causality or I'll remain quiet in future. Anything else would just be stupid on an internet forum.

when it's my government that's behaving stupidly and that stupidity is leading to mass loss of lives I'll continue to call it out on every occasion.


The government are in no way acting stupidly.
Where's your evidence for that, Mike?
Just saying that they are stupid or are acting stupidly doesn't make it so.
No, we need to look at the consequences of their actions.
They have saved thousands of lives already, and it will be tens of thousands before this is over.
Soon to become the worst loss of life in Europe, apparently.
For goodness sake, how about a little more credit and a lot less whining.
Not whining, I'm criticising. It's what critical thinking does, and it's the basis of all knowledge and understanding. The 'science' you and others think you champion in previous posts depends on it.
 
Blackswanwood":2lt6pv9n said:
Chris152":2lt6pv9n said:
UK now set to be the worst hit country in Europe.

Chris, what is it that makes you feel this is the case? I am asking as I feel no one knows or will do for some time so am I missing something?
It was in this evening's news on Ch4 and BBC, and those graphs they put up sometimes seem to support it.
 
Chris152":2qf0n6w7 said:
............. I'm criticising. It's what critical thinking does,......

There are two elements to critical thinking. You are showing enormous amounts of one of those elements.

Let's see if we can agree on something. In the context of this discussion, let's see if we can agree on a workable definition of stupid. For me, in this context, I would go with "not following the scientific advice". How would that definition work for you?
 
Chris152":1laxetay said:
...............Yes they are - it's here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nd-cant-do and govt's been actively encouraging it.......


Did you not notice the words in bold at the top...."Stay at home"? You really have got to stop seeing what you want to see, and asserting it as fact. Quote the precise lines where the government "actively encourages" (your words) people to go to work. And when you can't, perhaps you'll acknowledge that you were wrong.
 
Sawdust Sam":343gckwj said:
The question is could you do better or are you just a keyboard warrior. I guess most choose the expert view that meets their agenda and prejudice give experts have differing views. Was it a bat, the wet market, a lab mistake, the US, China. Cherry picking springs to mind. I heard last week from govt 742 million items of PPE had been distributed to the frontline, Herculean effort I’d suggest, no doubt all you have is but it’s not enough. I’m more than happy with how things have been handled to date. I’ve read the whole thread thanks and there’s lots of differences of opinion from members here, are they all based on the same experts advice or are the only valid interpretations those that are aligned with your opinion ?
Glad you're happy Sam. Definitely just a keyboard warrior, writing to keyboard warriors.
Must say tho, you and other critics of what I've written are winning me over. It's really starting to look to me like the UK's done and continues to do a really good job of mitigating the effects of the virus and minimising deaths, and I think we really should be celebrating those at the top who's excellent work has made this possible.
 
MikeG.":1ghze0hm said:
Chris152":1ghze0hm said:
...............Yes they are - it's here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nd-cant-do and govt's been actively encouraging it.......


Did you not notice the words in bold at the top...."Stay at home"? You really have got to stop seeing what you want to see, and asserting it as fact. Quote the precise lines where the government "actively encourages" (your words) people to go to work. And when you can't, perhaps you'll acknowledge that you were wrong.

No, sorry Mike - you're completely wrong and being slack in your argument. "Stay at home" negates all that follows? Don't be silly. Hancock has explicitly stated that it's important that people continue to work, and that includes going to work if you can't work at home. Seriously, do a bit of research of your own and stop just trying to appear to win an argument.
 
Chris152":1cukqyny said:
Blackswanwood":1cukqyny said:
Chris152":1cukqyny said:
UK now set to be the worst hit country in Europe.

Chris, what is it that makes you feel this is the case? I am asking as I feel no one knows or will do for some time so am I missing something?
It was in this evening's news on Ch4 and BBC, and those graphs they put up sometimes seem to support it.

Thanks. I’m still in the camp of we just don’t know. My take is that comparing the number of deaths per country is going to give nothing more than a broad indication.
 
Blackswanwood":odw8jeok said:
Chris152":odw8jeok said:
Thanks. I’m still in the camp of we just don’t know. My take is that comparing the number of deaths per country is going to give nothing more than a broad indication.
I think that being in that camp is the only sensible thing to do for anyone considering this crisis rationally.

For instance, comparing deaths per head in different countries is guaranteed to be misleading. You only have to consider Italy: it's traditional there for three generations of a family to live in one house, so the rate of exposure of the elderly to the virus is almost certain to be higher there than in e.g. the UK. It would also be worth knowing how many smokers there are in different countries. A country where masses of people smoke is likely to have a higher death rate than one in which people are a bit more health conscious.

I've seen nothing to indicate this yet but I wouldn't be surprised if cultural factors e.g. Italian familial arrangements, play a significant role. I reckon that maybe by autumn, as the various countries report on the studies they will inevitably make, we might be able to assess this crisis.
 
sploo":1526y2gu said:
RogerS":1526y2gu said:
"Virtue-signalling, third-party apologising, pseudo-liberals'.
I think you've managed to get several of the answers to this week's Daily Mail crossword with those Roger...

I never had you down as a Daily Mail reader, Sploo ! :wink: Glad I could help. :D
 
RogerS":tmsbveqr said:
sploo":tmsbveqr said:
RogerS":tmsbveqr said:
"Virtue-signalling, third-party apologising, pseudo-liberals'.
I think you've managed to get several of the answers to this week's Daily Mail crossword with those Roger...

I never had you down as a Daily Mail reader, Sploo ! :wink: Glad I could help. :D
touché :wink:
 
Chris152":2aehuwr1 said:
Sawdust Sam":2aehuwr1 said:
The question is could you do better or are you just a keyboard warrior. I guess most choose the expert view that meets their agenda and prejudice give experts have differing views. Was it a bat, the wet market, a lab mistake, the US, China. Cherry picking springs to mind. I heard last week from govt 742 million items of PPE had been distributed to the frontline, Herculean effort I’d suggest, no doubt all you have is but it’s not enough. I’m more than happy with how things have been handled to date. I’ve read the whole thread thanks and there’s lots of differences of opinion from members here, are they all based on the same experts advice or are the only valid interpretations those that are aligned with your opinion ?
Glad you're happy Sam. Definitely just a keyboard warrior, writing to keyboard warriors.
Must say tho, you and other critics of what I've written are winning me over. It's really starting to look to me like the UK's done and continues to do a really good job of mitigating the effects of the virus and minimising deaths, and I think we really should be celebrating those at the top who's excellent work has made this possible.

Great to see you admit to being wrong, doesn’t happen too often. Well done.
 
Sad to see that Tim Brooke-Taylor died of Covid19 yesterday, I hope he really is doing the Funky Gibbon up there. I also saw the Sir Stirling Moss died yesterday as well, don't know if it was related to the dreaded though. Still at least Tim was given a hell of a bus driver for the journey
 
Sawdust Sam":2q51e0k2 said:
Chris152":2q51e0k2 said:
Sawdust Sam":2q51e0k2 said:
The question is could you do better or are you just a keyboard warrior. I guess most choose the expert view that meets their agenda and prejudice give experts have differing views. Was it a bat, the wet market, a lab mistake, the US, China. Cherry picking springs to mind. I heard last week from govt 742 million items of PPE had been distributed to the frontline, Herculean effort I’d suggest, no doubt all you have is but it’s not enough. I’m more than happy with how things have been handled to date. I’ve read the whole thread thanks and there’s lots of differences of opinion from members here, are they all based on the same experts advice or are the only valid interpretations those that are aligned with your opinion ?
Glad you're happy Sam. Definitely just a keyboard warrior, writing to keyboard warriors.
Must say tho, you and other critics of what I've written are winning me over. It's really starting to look to me like the UK's done and continues to do a really good job of mitigating the effects of the virus and minimising deaths, and I think we really should be celebrating those at the top who's excellent work has made this possible.

Great to see you admit to being wrong, doesn’t happen too often. Well done.
:)

His voice isn't really to my taste, but I enjoyed watching this, this Easter Monday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY5yZgl ... p4hlmsG5Ec
 
Droogs":1gmoe550 said:
Sad to see that Tim Brooke-Taylor died of Covid19 yesterday, I hope he really is doing the Funky Gibbon up there. I also saw the Sir Stirling Moss died yesterday as well, don't know if it was related to the dreaded though. Still at least Tim was given a hell of a bus driver for the journey

Stirling Moss had been ill for a very long time.

Just to be pedantic (but even the media will back me up here for change) TB-T died *with* coronavirus. That is going to be a very important distinction to make in the coming months and years.
 
Droogs":7k3dl9wn said:
Sad to see that Tim Brooke-Taylor died of Covid19 yesterday, I hope he really is doing the Funky Gibbon up there. I also saw the Sir Stirling Moss died yesterday as well, don't know if it was related to the dreaded though. Still at least Tim was given a hell of a bus driver for the journey
=D> Yes a sad loss, apparently he was still touring and seemed fit so I don't know if there were underlying issues.
Rorschach":7k3dl9wn said:
Stirling Moss had been ill for a very long time.

Just to be pedantic (but even the media will back me up here for change) TB-T died *with* coronavirus. That is going to be a very important distinction to make in the coming months and years.
Agreed on both counts however without checking back I'm sure BBC breakfast presenter this morning said "of" the virus.
 
Lons":2ey0u7ep said:
Agreed on both counts however without checking back I'm sure BBC breakfast presenter this morning said "of" the virus.

Could well have done, very easy to get a slip of the tongue. I tend to go with written articles where (hopefully) they are being more careful with their wording.

Same for the reports on Eddie Large, various bits of news on the grapevine said he died *of* coronavirus, official articles stated it was *with* and then his family came out with a statement saying he had been ill for a while, they knew his days were numbered and CV was just the last bit that pushed him over.
As you say TB-T was still working, but he was 79 and he might have had health problems that were kept private. Very sad all the same.
 
I wonder how many of the people shouting and screaming blaming the govt for everything are the same people who ignored the advice then the rules then ending up with fines. What gets me is that screaming and bleeting about incompetence when it was clear what was happening in Italy etc, if it was so clear why didnt they scream nd shout then or then the population self isolated, why didnt they take responsibility for themselves? and don't blame they were forced to go out to work etc. If something that could kill me as easy as I could fart was so clear then no matter what i wouldnt be going out. Im fed up of seeing the GOVT blamed by people who sit on their arses and do nothing to help situation.
STFU
 
In my night musings of listlessness on Saturday, I came across a live feed from Vancouver of Anti-vaccers etc protesting in the streets about being subjected to martial law and how the whole thing was lies and the people dying were dying of normal stuff and just being used by the gov to have a NWO coup. what a bunch of wazzicks
 
FatmanG":d1eht20h said:
I wonder how many of the people shouting and screaming blaming the govt for everything are the same people who ignored the advice then the rules then ending up with fines. What gets me is that screaming and bleeting about incompetence when it was clear what was happening in Italy etc, if it was so clear why didnt they scream nd shout then or then the population self isolated, why didnt they take responsibility for themselves? and don't blame they were forced to go out to work etc. If something that could kill me as easy as I could fart was so clear then no matter what i wouldnt be going out. Im fed up of seeing the GOVT blamed by people who sit on their buttocks and do nothing to help situation.
STFU
Given the data available (especially from Italy) I believe one of the criticisms comes from the government pursuing a flawed herd immunity strategy, when they arguably could/should have gone for the lockdown immediately. I don't know from where the herd immunity policy came, or exactly what caused the change in direction.

Point being: there was enough info available from countries that were a few weeks ahead of us to warn of what would happen, so learning from that would have been a good idea.

The second issue is the lack of PPE to protect frontline NHS staff. Exactly where the "blame" lies there; I guess we'll see in time. Or rather, I guess we'll see a whitewashing of the failure, published on page 27 of the papers in some months; because there'll be some new story on the front pages to keep the public entertained.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top