Coronavirus

[Woody2Shoes]

We've got to be careful about getting into politics here.

For instance: when I read the Guardian's comment section, I often find myself wondering how it is that people that thick/bitter/twisted etc. are being given the credibility afforded them by being allowed to have their views put in a national newspaper.

:lol:

There's no politics there. I could have just as easily written that about e.g. Daily Mail. It's the quality of the commentary of which I despair, not particularly the sentiments which it represents.

Perversely, the DM has surprisingly high journalistic standards - articles are nearly always the most factually rich and accurate - albeit the choice of subject and the editorial spin are often execrable.

 

[steve1001]

steve1001 wrote:
........I am trying to figure out if there is in fact a marked increase in the death rate, or is it that those people that have died (sorry to say) would have succumbed at some point, but unluckily were taken early by Covid-19 instead..........


Sorry to have to break it to you Steve, but we're all going to die at some point.

Acquire skills, not tools.

I see the numbers were lost on you. But thanks for those great words of wisdom. :roll:

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I have been hugely disappointed with the performance of the media in general over the last several weeks.

I would like a media which asks intelligent searching questions of politicians and experts, and seeks to present them in a way which is complete, unambiguous and intelligible.

But at the daily press conferences the questions are woefully predictable and obviously unanswerable - for everyone the virus, its control and prevention is breaking new ground.

Outside the confines of the Downing Street press briefings, they would rather report on (for instance) the small proportion of the police who fail to apply guidelines with good judgement rather than the vast majority who are.

And the government spokespersons are being predictably coy and evasive in their answers as they know that in weeks to come they will be asked "but you said three weeks ago that ........" This despite their initial assurances about transparency.

A generality (there are some who don't fit this model) but it is all rather sad:

- politicians need to treat the press with the respect they often don't deserve because they can make or break political careers
- the press want to sell column inches or viewer numbers to increase income and advertising revenue
- and saddest of all most of the public don't seem to have the critical judgement to realise that by consuming the garbage they are served, they are being treated as idiots

 

[Andy Kev.]

The speccy's owned by the same people as the tgraph and the writing is only a little better than the economist.

The ownership doesn't particularly interest me. In fact it doesn't interest me at all. What does interest me is the quality of the mag which I think is very high.

 

[MikeG.]

steve1001 wrote:
........I am trying to figure out if there is in fact a marked increase in the death rate, or is it that those people that have died (sorry to say) would have succumbed at some point, but unluckily were taken early by Covid-19 instead..........


Sorry to have to break it to you Steve, but we're all going to die at some point.

Acquire skills, not tools.

I see the numbers were lost on you. But thanks for those great words of wisdom. :roll:

I see the humour was lost on you. :roll: You also seem to have mis-placed the quote tags. Tell you what, if you cut out the sarcasm and the eye rolls, maybe you'll get fewer in return.

 

[sploo]

Perversely, the DM has surprisingly high journalistic standards - articles are nearly always the most factually rich and accurate - albeit the choice of subject and the editorial spin are often execrable.

Surprisingly high journalistic standards? :shock:

Heck, they're not even considered a reliable source for wikipedia articles: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped ... y_Mail_RfC

 

[Andy Kev.]

Andy Kev wrote:

Now were I to say that to any of those commentators, they would quite reasonably be offended as it would be unnecessarily rude. And FWIW my personal policy is that when people reach the intellectual depths of the average Guardianista, I tend not to engage with them: closed minds and all that.

horses for courses, you have in the past quoted from the Telegraph, which is a propaganda machine and is known for misrepresenting facts.

Firstly, show me a daily paper which cannot be branded a "propaganda machine" (assuming one favours faintly ridiculous metaphors) and secondly, if a newspaper - any newspaper - runs a story based on what it alleges are the facts, those facts are checkable and so the story can be judged by the interested reader.

When I have quoted from the DT, I have made that quite clear and so one can take the quote with a pinch of salt or suspicion if one wishes but the journalism quoted stands or falls by how credible it is.

In my experience all papers frame the news in ways which favour their editorial line (as does the BBC for that matter). Some are better at separating fact from comment than others but that serves to help us judge them.

I don't mind papers doing that because nobody can force us to buy any particular paper. In publicly funded broadcasters such framing aka bias is unforgivable as all are forced to pay the licence fee.

 

[nev]

](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

[youtube]ohDB5gbtaEQ[/youtube]

 

[Chris152]

](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

[youtube]ohDB5gbtaEQ[/youtube]

Brilliant. I used to use that sketch when I was a humanities lecturer.

 

[sploo]

](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

[youtube]ohDB5gbtaEQ[/youtube]

Brilliant. I used to use that sketch when I was a humanities lecturer.

No you didn't.

Ahem.

 

[Just4Fun]

The data are from one of the Gov websites:-
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ndandwales

Accreditation to ONS - Source: Office for National Statistics licensed under the Open Government Licence.

I consider these figures to be pretty accurate, but they are provisional

It is interesting to note that the ONS Covid death figures you quote do not match the figures published at
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/.
Interpret that however you wish, but it is worth bearing in mind that some people we discuss this with may be working from different figures.

 

[D_W]

The dangerous journalists here are the ones who are egomaniacs, who have managed to get a large market share, and who believe that when they trim stories to match what they want them to be, they're doing a public service.

One of our now fired TV journalists here said in an interview that "the story is not the same without him", in reference to a question about whether or not he believes that it's important that the news comes from him. It's hard to explain what he was saying, except to say it as that - he believed that he was an integral part of stories himself. Not a conduit, but a necessary element.

It was a disturbing response from someone who was supposed to be an investigative reporter. He later (during space shuttle columbia breaking news) got pranked by howard stern show staffers and failed to notice that he was being pranked - in real time - when the caller said that giant teeth fell out of the space shuttle and landed in his back yard.

I've since stopped watching news in general and will read it from any point of view to try to remove or even out bias from egos. My father in law is an intelligent fellow, but he still has this 1970s style loyalty to certain reporters and when some of them (brian williams come to mind) get caught in outright lies, it's huge news to him "can you believe that? It's so disappointing". How can you be surprised? Journalists are a lot like politicians - most of the worst psychopathic and hypomanic traits will push the "leaders" to the top and keep them there, completely unhindered by gigantic past blunders and misdeeds.

There's no real reason to believe the reporting on covid is any different, and I can hardly wait to avoid the made for TV post-mortem news reports that assign blame wherever they decided they would before they started their "investigations". Few of them will discuss the possible origins of the respiratory diseases (wet markets and other third world food production) because that's now deemed politically incorrect.

 

[Rorschach]

FYI the mortality rate in New Zealand is currently around 0.3%
Just sayin......

 

[Chris152]

FYI the mortality rate in New Zealand is currently around 0.3%
Just sayin......

Meanwhile, in South Wales, 'Half of Royal Gwent in Newport A&E workforce have tested positive for coronavirus':
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/ ... ytZ36L0I2M
British incompetence and arrogance comes face-to-face with reality.

 

[MikeG.]

.........British incompetence and arrogance comes face-to-face with reality.

Do you have to do this stuff? Honestly. You cannot point the finger of blame at anyone for this, yet you somehow have to slip this sort of nonsense in every other post. Arrogance, too? Who on earth was arrogant? And in what way did arrogance feed directly through to Newport? Jeez, Chris, I thought more of you than this.

 

[Chris152]

.........British incompetence and arrogance comes face-to-face with reality.

Do you have to do this stuff? Honestly. You cannot point the finger of blame at anyone for this, yet you somehow have to slip this sort of nonsense in every other post. Arrogance, too? Who on earth was arrogant? And in what way did arrogance feed directly through to Newport? Jeez, Chris, I thought more of you than this.

Don't think more of me than this, Mike. Incompetence - failure to procure essential equipment in good time in spite of forewarning, and while other governments were doing exactly that. Arrogance - failure to review quickly enough a strategy that allowed the virus to take hold in spite of clear warnings from international experts. And it continues. Still people are encouraged to go to work if they cannot work from home. Economy - which is crashing anyway - prioritised over lives. I can't abide stupidity, and when it's my government that's behaving stupidly and that stupidity is leading to mass loss of lives I'll continue to call it out on every occasion.

 

[Sawdust Sam]

It’s easy to be critical when you have no responsibility, hindsight an easy tool to apportion blame. It’s a mammoth task and those in charge are doing their best. I wonder how well the neigh sayers would perform in the same position. Anyone can be a critic.

 

[MikeG.]

.........British incompetence and arrogance comes face-to-face with reality.

Do you have to do this stuff? Honestly. You cannot point the finger of blame at anyone for this, yet you somehow have to slip this sort of nonsense in every other post. Arrogance, too? Who on earth was arrogant? And in what way did arrogance feed directly through to Newport? Jeez, Chris, I thought more of you than this.

........failure to procure essential equipment in good time in spite of forewarning, and while other governments were doing exactly that.

The NHS procure their own stuff. This isn't a government or ministerial responsibility. The fact is, the NHS hadn't bought or stockpiled enough stuff, and it took the government effort, with the army, to sort the situation out. You haven't linked that to Newport. Have you any evidence that government decisions have directly caused staff illnesses in Newport? Can you point to any countries which haven't had front line health workers affected by this virus?

Arrogance - failure to review quickly enough a strategy that allowed the virus to take hold in spite of clear warnings from international experts.

Can you list the countries that acted in time and so didn't have any corona virus deaths? And you haven't linked this to Newport.

And it continues.

Well, you've nothing so far, so it isn't "continuing", so much as starting.

Still people are encouraged to go to work if they cannot work from home.

No they're not. Are you determined to twist everything? Have you some sort of agenda? And how does this directly affect the number of NHS staff off work in Newport?

Economy - which is crashing anyway - prioritised over lives.

The economy crashing is a deliberate government policy to try to save lives. Surely you had noticed that? Or are those goggles you wear so distorting your view of the world that you can't see anything at all?

I can't abide stupidity

That's not obvious. Your arguments fall firmly into that category. You are arguing by assertion, rather than by providing evidence and logic.

when it's my government that's behaving stupidly and that stupidity is leading to mass loss of lives I'll continue to call it out on every occasion.

The government are in no way acting stupidly. Just saying that they are stupid or are acting stupidly doesn't make it so. They have saved thousands of lives already, and it will be tens of thousands before this is over. For goodness sake, how about a little more credit and a lot less whining.

 

[Chris152]

It’s easy to be critical when you have no responsibility, hindsight an easy tool to apportion blame. It’s a mammoth task and those in charge are doing their best. I wonder how well the neigh sayers would perform in the same position. Anyone can be a critic.

Threads have been running on the virus the past couple of months. Take a read and you'll see it's not hindsight, there was plenty of advance warning from experts that members have based their thoughts on throughout. As for those in charge 'doing their best', well, that's the kind of thing we praise our children for. Fortunately, most of them aren't running the country. UK now set to be the worst hit country in Europe. Still, our leaders did their best so whats to question?

 

[Sawdust Sam]

The question is could you do better or are you just a keyboard warrior. I guess most choose the expert view that meets their agenda and prejudice give experts have differing views. Was it a bat, the wet market, a lab mistake, the US, China. Cherry picking springs to mind. I heard last week from govt 742 million items of PPE had been distributed to the frontline, Herculean effort I’d suggest, no doubt all you have is but it’s not enough. I’m more than happy with how things have been handled to date. I’ve read the whole thread thanks and there’s lots of differences of opinion from members here, are they all based on the same experts advice or are the only valid interpretations those that are aligned with your opinion ?