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sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I'd agree with the "hero" tag being greatly overused (heck, I recall it being applied to football players for a while!)Andy Kev.":1oxaeepr said:
Leadership is an issue in pretty much any field; obviously there's an element of being promoted to your level of incompetence (i.e. make the useless guy a manager so he can't do damage where the "real" work is being done). Mainly though, many (maybe most?) people just want to get on with their role, and aren't interested in managing systems or people. For that reason, management is going to attract a subset of individuals, and in many fields, a degree of political savvy is going to be required (by that I mean you have to be a bit more subtle and know when to keep quiet and "play the game"). Finally, there are those fields where the managers have never been on "the shop floor"; be that the stereotype of the posh army officer boy (with no battlefield experience), or the NHS manager who's never done any front line medicine.
All that said; I would have huge respect at the moment for people operating tills in supermarkets - you're basically facing a stream of unknown (potentially Covid-carrying) people for hours at a time!
Andy Kev.":ij8xqjad said:
Some very sensible stuff here, probably better worded that I would put it :lol:
I think your comment RE: Chief Constables is bang on. I suppose really my opinions on the ordinary copper are based on the fact that they seem swallow this direction with no fight back. They might start with good intentions but the culture within the force soon sours them to the general public and makes them feel superior morally.
I won't go into too much detail but not that long ago a PO in the family did exactly that, he decided that he wasn't going to let me do something because it didn't fit in with his views and the use of other Police was threatened to make me comply (the threat of flagging me on the system for harassment, a common tactic I have heard him boast about many times before).
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
They turn up at work each day and walk into the unhealthiest location in civilization to care and aid those who are afflicted by not just injury or chronic conditions but at any time may be required to administer to people who could any number of infections and diseases that can kill you. they are required to work in sub optimal conditions - they are stressed, over tired and under staffed for most of the time. junior doctors work on the whole a horrendous l number of hours as a general rule due to shortages of staff .
They are routinely required to make life or death decisions in the most stressed state of being and face unbelievably stringent repercussions if they get it wrong. Apart from the upper echelon they are not particularly well paid in comparison to most private sector trades and face regular abuse and physical harm when trying to do their jobs from the very people they are trying to save.
if you are willing to face that for at least 48 hours a week for 40 years until you retire then as far as I am concern you most definitely are a sodding hero. After all Military heroes are just guys in the wrong place at the wrong time doing what they can to keep them and their mates alive. There is a reason that the majority of VCs have been given to people saving others rather that killing others. Heroes do what they do out of love for their fellows not the love of their bank balance
They are routinely required to make life or death decisions in the most stressed state of being and face unbelievably stringent repercussions if they get it wrong. Apart from the upper echelon they are not particularly well paid in comparison to most private sector trades and face regular abuse and physical harm when trying to do their jobs from the very people they are trying to save.
if you are willing to face that for at least 48 hours a week for 40 years until you retire then as far as I am concern you most definitely are a sodding hero. After all Military heroes are just guys in the wrong place at the wrong time doing what they can to keep them and their mates alive. There is a reason that the majority of VCs have been given to people saving others rather that killing others. Heroes do what they do out of love for their fellows not the love of their bank balance
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Drunk and aggressive patients, patients with Meningitis, trying to treat a youth with gunshot wounds where you know that members of the gang that shot him are in the hospital and wanting to finish the job - in the UK. Really.Rorschach":x7204p7a said:
(but Droogs put it much, much better in his post1345387.html#p1345387 post)
Irish Rover
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Does Rorschach have some compromising photographs of one of the mods?
I have never seen such draconian moderating.
Shameful
I have never seen such draconian moderating.
Shameful
nev
Established Member
Irish Rover":3mu01lg6 said:
If you , and anyone else, insist on just posting inflammatory one line comments jut to try and be clever or intentionally confrontational and argumentative they will be deleted.
If you act like a child you'll be treated like one.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Rorschach":2xpdyhp4 said:
Please help me to understand this Rorschach. I generally feel people don't make sweeping and unjustifiable statements which may be felt offensive by others intentionally and so I must be missing something here. Without explanation I do find your comments at best irrational and at worst offensive.
My son is a Police Officer. He works long hours, is conscientious and deals with many situations that are both distressing and shocking. As I highlighted earlier he dealt with the sudden death of a teenage girl last night and came home this morning clearly upset and touched by the situation. He'll be back on duty tonight dealing with the public with good humour and courtesy.
Earlier in this thread you referenced a member of your family who is a PO and "good egg" but roll forward a few posts and this good egg is engaged in making threats that he will put you on a list to be hassled (probably engaging in what could be termed police corruption in the process) and as such all PO's end up morally superior?
Blackswanwood":2yegrw7l said:
Sounds like your son is one of the good ones, I really hope he is, they are getting few and far between unfortunately and are being corrupted by the system. Many of the ones who joined with good intentions are being coerced into bad behaviour or (almost as bad) are apologists for the bad ones and don't speak up. If he is one of "the few" then I don't mean to offend him and I wish him the best. Ask him if he has seen any corruption and/or poor policing, I'll bet he has.
Apologies for the confusion before. We have several PC's in the extended family as well as several civilian support. The "good egg" wasn't the one doing the threatening, he works hard and treats even the scum with respect, not that they deserve it but it is the way it should be done.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Rorschach":275z4rmd said:
I just asked him. No he hasn't seen any.
So, the good egg was the one doing the threatening ...
No need to respond - I've had enough of these ridiculous ramblings and will simply ignore your posts in future.
ScaredyCat
Established Member
From tomorrow the ONS will be including COVID-19 deaths that happen outside hospitals. They haven't been including them thus far.
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Irish Rover
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nev":1aykakjg said:
Go and **** yourself.
Bye :lol:
Lons
Established Member
Rorschach you have absolutely no idea and are being deliberately ignorant and obnoxious, :roll: You clearly are an sad individual and I hope you don't have the misfortune to need the services of those you have criticised, it's a shame people like you can't be tattooed " do not resuscitate "
I can't comment on either the police or fire service though I have friends in both professions but I do have a number of close relatives who are or have been in the NHS as nurses, doctors and a heart consultant and am very well versed in the physical danger some of them were exposed to every Friday and Saturday night from drunks and druggies while on duty at A&E. There were many physical attacks though thankfully my family were lucky enough to avoid. Add to that the constant exposure to illness and now the very real risk to their own and family lives just highlights how much rubbish there is emanating from your direction.
Nurses to become qualified have to attend university for 3 years but without the Uni holidays instead of which they have to work on placement in hospitals and NHS community services then, especially in areas outside of London are paid below national wage and in hospitals they work unsociable hours often 3 nights followed by 3 days with only a day to recover sleep patterns, sometimes split shifts as well. All of that after dealing daily with death and serious illness, My wife and daughter found dealing with distraught relatives heartbreaking, I couldn't do that.
You're a disgrace and I'm very grateful for the fact I don't know you as it spares me being ashamed that I did!
I can't comment on either the police or fire service though I have friends in both professions but I do have a number of close relatives who are or have been in the NHS as nurses, doctors and a heart consultant and am very well versed in the physical danger some of them were exposed to every Friday and Saturday night from drunks and druggies while on duty at A&E. There were many physical attacks though thankfully my family were lucky enough to avoid. Add to that the constant exposure to illness and now the very real risk to their own and family lives just highlights how much rubbish there is emanating from your direction.
Nurses to become qualified have to attend university for 3 years but without the Uni holidays instead of which they have to work on placement in hospitals and NHS community services then, especially in areas outside of London are paid below national wage and in hospitals they work unsociable hours often 3 nights followed by 3 days with only a day to recover sleep patterns, sometimes split shifts as well. All of that after dealing daily with death and serious illness, My wife and daughter found dealing with distraught relatives heartbreaking, I couldn't do that.
You're a disgrace and I'm very grateful for the fact I don't know you as it spares me being ashamed that I did!
Hang on a minute, one of the great problems with the public climate in recent years is the attempt to close down dissenting voices, usually in a rude and intolerant way.
The point of a democracy is that everybody gets their say as long as they are not lying or being obscene or are advocating illegal action. As far as I can see, Rorschach is doing none of those. We have the right to disagree with him. We have the right to find his views out of order. However, the only acceptable response is to produce counter argument which shows those views to be fallacious (unless one takes the internet option to ignore).
It is currently fashionable to place the emergency services above criticism. He doesn't accept that. He's allowed to just as much as I am allowed to question conferring heroic status on all members of the emergency services.
So how about debating instead of shouting?
Lons, this isn't directed specifically at you. Your second and third paragraphs constitute argument (although I don't think that the first and fourth help in any way) but is rather an appeal to all.
The point of a democracy is that everybody gets their say as long as they are not lying or being obscene or are advocating illegal action. As far as I can see, Rorschach is doing none of those. We have the right to disagree with him. We have the right to find his views out of order. However, the only acceptable response is to produce counter argument which shows those views to be fallacious (unless one takes the internet option to ignore).
It is currently fashionable to place the emergency services above criticism. He doesn't accept that. He's allowed to just as much as I am allowed to question conferring heroic status on all members of the emergency services.
So how about debating instead of shouting?
Lons, this isn't directed specifically at you. Your second and third paragraphs constitute argument (although I don't think that the first and fourth help in any way) but is rather an appeal to all.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
Taken a strange turn here today. To my mind, the term "hero" is to be applied to rare instances of behaviour "above and beyond the call of duty". Hospital staff, military, firemen etc, all sign up intentionally, and theoretically know the deal going in. They also (with the exception of the military) have the option of walking out at any time, if they don't like it. And no mention of the poor, minimum wage security guard who actually has to deal with the idiots causing trouble.
The enforced, Facebook pressured, Sun promoted pseudo-cultural hero-worship of these professions is disturbing. Being told how to feel, in other word - enforced emotion. Smacks of 1984.
Here is an example of what I would call heroic:
[youtube]Z5TfWvxKEzw[/youtube]
The enforced, Facebook pressured, Sun promoted pseudo-cultural hero-worship of these professions is disturbing. Being told how to feel, in other word - enforced emotion. Smacks of 1984.
Here is an example of what I would call heroic:
[youtube]Z5TfWvxKEzw[/youtube]
TN,
you're getting at what I was on about. If everybody is a hero for doing what their jobs routinely demand of them, what do you call somebody who does indeed go above and beyond?
I reckon that coppers and firemen routinely have bravery (by the standards of Joe Soap sitting at his computer in an office) demanded of them and with the help of their training they routinely deliver. All the emergency services have my genuine respect but I would bet that most of them would deny being heroes and that would not be done in a spirit of false modesty.
The other thing that makes me wince is the public rounds of applause. I find it corny and a bit embarrassing. However, I respect the right of those who wish to indulge and of course their motivation is sincere but personally I think it is the sort of thing best left to over-emotional foreigners. What does get me though is the notion that people might feel pressured to joining in when they would rather not. I'd rather see the traditional reception at the Guildhall and in similar places up and down the country once it is all over. It would be more dignified and somehow more worthy.
you're getting at what I was on about. If everybody is a hero for doing what their jobs routinely demand of them, what do you call somebody who does indeed go above and beyond?
I reckon that coppers and firemen routinely have bravery (by the standards of Joe Soap sitting at his computer in an office) demanded of them and with the help of their training they routinely deliver. All the emergency services have my genuine respect but I would bet that most of them would deny being heroes and that would not be done in a spirit of false modesty.
The other thing that makes me wince is the public rounds of applause. I find it corny and a bit embarrassing. However, I respect the right of those who wish to indulge and of course their motivation is sincere but personally I think it is the sort of thing best left to over-emotional foreigners. What does get me though is the notion that people might feel pressured to joining in when they would rather not. I'd rather see the traditional reception at the Guildhall and in similar places up and down the country once it is all over. It would be more dignified and somehow more worthy.
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