Coronavirus

[Droogs]

14, 13 or 9?

Me: Green Slime but I fled the Dark Side for the sunny uplands after 13.

Instructor was from 14, I was 244 at the time (RTG) and then 30 and then became a SysTech and went to 242 and then went to 2btn 2RGR in Borneo and did some stuff at Blandford and then a lot of stuff with other agencies. All in all 17 years of keeping Jimmy happy

 

[Andy Kev.]

14, 13 or 9?

Me: Green Slime but I fled the Dark Side for the sunny uplands after 13.

Instructor was from 14, I was 244 at the time RTG and then 30 and then Become an SysTech and went to 242 and then went to 2btn 2RGR and did some stuff at Blandford and then a lot of stuff with other agencies. All in all 17 years of keeping Jimmy happy

Our paths would never have crossed, then.

 

[MikeG.]

We aren't going to agree, Jake, which is fine.

-

I'm into day 4 or 5 now, and it's the worst day yet. Thankfully my eyeballs don't feel like they're on fire anymore, though. I have a nice little half hour job planned on my planer guard*, but at the moment I just can't be bothered. It's too much of a hassle even to walk to the workshop.

*....and a thread on modified American swing-away guards vs the European model guards.

 

[transatlantic]

We aren't going to agree, Jake, which is fine.

-

I'm into day 4 or 5 now, and it's the worst day yet. Thankfully my eyeballs don't feel like they're on fire anymore, though. I have a nice little half hour job planned on my planer guard*, but at the moment I just can't be bothered. It's too much of a hassle even to walk to the workshop.

*....and a thread on modified American swing-away guards vs the European model guards.

If you're feeling at all unwell, best to stick to the hand tools. A lapse of concentration (more likely when you're not quite with it) could result in a serious injury. Not something you want at this point in time.

 

[MikeG.]

........If you're feeling at all unwell, best to stick to the hand tools. A lapse of concentration (more likely when you're not quite with it) could result in a serious injury. Not something you want at this point in time.

This is about hand tools. A drill and a coping saw. That's all. More importantly, though, is gathering the strength to even get out to the workshop in the first place.

 

[ColeyS1]

Wonder if it'll effect our utilities ? Powercut is a great start to the day !

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Lons]

It has to affect everything Coley as the crisis deepens and crucial staff get sick.

Not important but I needed to speak to BT by 'phone yesterday and the service crashed 3 times before I got through and I've been trying for 4 days to pause / suspend my Sky sports subscription via the website which has proved impossible as it's overwhelmed, I eventually got through by 'phone this morning.

As an aside, I got an Axminster gift card for a birthday present a few days ago and made the trip to the local store yesterday planning to take the appropriate cautionary action but there was little need as during the hour and a half or so I was in store there were only 3 other customers. They will find it very difficult to survive on that basis for long.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Whether or not the use of a flawed model was due to negligence (on whose part?), a lack of data, or unrealistic assumptions is somewhat unimportant right now.

Of more importance is whether the actions now being taken are correct. Finding someone to blame is a common reaction but not necessarily very constructive.

We can always have an enquiry when the heat is off to determine what, if anything, was done wrong (a) to learn for the future, and (b) identify the culprit (although I am not sure there is any real point).

But I am drawn to the thought that it is far better to reward (not necessarily financial) those who find solutions, than blame those who got it wrong. The latter simply encourages defensive behaviours.

 

[Chris152]

Of more importance is whether the actions now being taken are correct.

I agree - and it's fundamentally important that we can trust those making decisions for us to do the right thing for us. Both competence and priorities come into that question.

 

[Lons]

My sister in law sent me this link from Australia about a week ago, it's a series of reports linked together but is eye opening and more than a little disturbing, especially when they looked at the wet markets and their role in this, past and future outbreaks and the views of one of the world leading experts.
I've just watched it again and need to go for a lie down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7nZ4mw4mXw

Also a sky news report in a hospital in Italy which they need to show on very large screens placed in areas where people are still congregating socially.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J60fQr ... SsQ0vtK3mY

as someone who's reasonably healthy but turned 71 this week and has a family with respiratory issues am I worried? You bet I am, I'm sh*t scared for my family!

 

[FatmanG]

Interesting reading this thread with contributions from clearly some members far more intelligent than I. As of yet were not overwhelmed in our NHS or other key areas are we? Or am I mistaken? If not isn't it too early to blame anyone and we should be all as a nation even myself who is right in the firing line as I'm down regularly with pneumonia doing our bit to help fight this. I vent like everyone else but to seek out blame for this is not the right time. Furthermore aren't we all to blame in someway with the lack of care for the planet.
FG

 

[Jake]

As of yet were not overwhelmed in our NHS or other key areas are we?

Not yet, London is getting towards it. We might have a week, perhaps 10 days at a push. It isn't stoppable now, the levers just don't work that fast.

I think we're at least 2-3 weeks ahead of the rest of the UK, so there is more chance if the government gets its act together (but like this thread, it's full of ostrich and sand behaviour - Boris apparently values liberty very highly even if its valued in deaths, hence the slow incremental approach).

 

[HappyHacker]

Whether or not the use of a flawed model was due to negligence (on whose part?), a lack of data, or unrealistic assumptions is somewhat unimportant right now.

Of more importance is whether the actions now being taken are correct. Finding someone to blame is a common reaction but not necessarily very constructive.

We can always have an enquiry when the heat is off to determine what, if anything, was done wrong (a) to learn for the future, and (b) identify the culprit (although I am not sure there is any real point).

But I am drawn to the thought that it is far better to reward (not necessarily financial) those who find solutions, than blame those who got it wrong. The latter simply encourages defensive behaviours.

The usual problem with enquiries is that with the benefit of being able to gather all the facts and spend time discussing all the options they often blame the people who had to make decisions quickly with limited information.

When an organisation receives criticism from an enquiry the result is almost always lessons will be learnt so the same mistakes cannot happen again. When what they mean is we will put procedures in place so that if it happens again it will be the fault of someone who did not follow our now complex and unworkable procedures.

I worked for a short time for a company that had a blame culture. With the result that if you did something whether it worked or not you got the blame. So no one wanted to do anything and spent a lot of time ensuring they could not get the blame for anything. I did not last very long.

Totally agree with your last comment.

 

[Lons]

Anyone who really does need to lay the blame somewhere should look long and hard at why we have the virus, where it originated and what they did to suppress the information and hide it from the world.

Ok a journalists position so it has to be taken in that context but sobering non the less and the fact China has the style of government who can build hospitals in weeks rather than years is worth absolutely ziltch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycrqXJYf1SU

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But we mustn't call it the Chinese virus, as the Donald found out.

 

[user22161]

Of more importance is whether the actions now being taken are correct.

I agree - and it's fundamentally important that we can trust those making decisions for us to do the right thing for us. Both competence and priorities come into that question.

Yes, we have to have trust but, in reality, the average MP has no more medical or crisis management experience than the general population.

Instead of working together, the opposition just sits there blaming the government for actions when, if they were in power, they would have most likely received exactly the same advice from the same so-called experts and taken the same initial course of inaction.

In reality, the virus is the minor problem facing us, yes a few of us will die and others will be ill but, the long term consequential problems will create much hardship, it's already started. A news item last night showed some foreign hotel workers who lost their jobs without notice but they also lost the accommodation which came with the job and were turned out on the streets.

Those of us who are retired 70+ may be at greater risk of snuffing it but, most of us have paid the mortgages off by now and don't have to worry about jobs and bringing up young children so, in my mind, we're the lucky ones.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, that was shameful. Iirc it was a place owned by Britannia, who have a pretty awful reputation anyway.

 

[RogerS]

I couldn't agree more. The scientists, under great pressure, got the ball rolling and the government acted. Once assumptions were shown to be false, remedial action was taken.

I think that as a culture we have taken on the idea that "experts" always get everything right. They usually do ... eventually ... but a lot of models get discarded on the way. The problem with the current situation is that mistakes can lead to great personal tragedy for families as opposed to say, a new choke point for traffic being inadvertently created. Unfortunately there is no magic way of getting around the usual error-strewn path.

Never heard of 'peer review' then ? That IS what good science is all about. A 'peer review' is your magic way. It's not rocket-science. I can't understand why you are defending both Imperial and the Govt.

Tell us all: how long in your experience does the peer review process take? Is it something to which decisions taken urgently under great time pressure are routinely subjected?

Perhaps you could enlighten us.

How long does it take someone to have a look at a spreadsheet ? Not long.

 

[MikeG.]

That isn't peer review, Roger.

 

[Andy Kev.]

How long does it take someone to have a look at a spreadsheet ? Not long.

Right, so we've established that you simply don't know what the term "peer review" means, as it is not what you maintained earlier, nor is it anything to do with spreadsheets. It also doesn't mean peer in the sense of having a squint at something.

So why bandy a word about and attribute to it what you think it might mean?

Meanwhile, I've completely forgotten what the original point was that you were trying to make.