Coronavirus

[squib]

Lockdown:
Yes there is fear.
Yes there is isolation.
Yes there is panic buying.
Yes there is sickness.
Yes there is even death.

But,
They say that in Wuhan after so many years of noise
You can hear the birds again.
They say that after just a few weeks of quiet
The sky is no longer thick with fumes
But blue and grey and clear.
They say that in the streets of Assisi
People are singing to each other across the empty squares, keeping their windows open so that those who are alone may hear the sounds of family around them.
They say that a hotel in the West of Ireland
Is offering free meals and delivery to the housebound.
Today Churches, Synagogues, Mosques and Temples are preparing to welcome and shelter the homeless, the sick, the weary
All over the world people are slowing down and reflecting
All over the world people are looking at their neighbours in a new way
All over the world people are waking up to a new reality
To how big we really are.
To how little control we really have.
To what really matters.
So we are still and we remember that
Yes there is fear.
But there does not have to be hate.
Yes there is isolation.
But there does not have to be loneliness.
Yes there is panic buying.
But there does not have to be meanness.
Yes there is sickness.
But there does not have to be disease of the soul
Wake to the choices you make as to how to live now.
Today, breathe.
Listen, behind the factory noises of your panic
The birds are singing again
The sky is clearing,
Spring is coming,
Open the windows of your soul
And though you may not be able to touch across the empty square,
Sing.

March 14th 2020

 

[Lons]

We're planning how/when/if one of us catches it. Fortunately, LOML has her own en-suite so I can lock her in her bedroom if she catches it. Give her a laptop to watch TV or listen to the radio. I'll prepare her food and leave it outside the door. Either that or put on gloves, goggles (in case I touch my eyes) and a dust mask (ditto). Bring in the security camera from outside and stick it in her room so I can monitor her. Lie back and think of England.

If I were you I'd be more worried about her plans if you catch it first Roger. Your' insurance policies and will haven't appeared on a table recently have they. :wink: :lol:

 

[Droogs]

Well time to start being a bit more concerned for our household. Missus just txtd, she's a supply teacher in Edinburgh and if the schools close, her union just told her that edinburgh council will not pay any wages of any sort to supply teachers though normal teachers will get pay. So we are stuffed as I haven't been able to work properly for the last 4 months as currently getting cancer treatment and my earnings plan has been scuppered by the virus as taxis are being decimated by having no passengers. So off to the CAB tomorrow hopefully

 

[RogerS]

Sorry to hear that, Droogs. Can't the union put pressure on the Govt to sort that out ? They seem to be helping in all sorts of other areas. Hope things pan out for you. You're not alone though....my mate sent me this email

I have companies (customers) who suddenly have no work (everything cancelled) and they are tearing hair out working out what to do about their staff. They also owe me money, so say goodbye to that.
Tough times

And more scarily (I've emailed him to ask if he is joking) my doctor chum when asked by another friend what his medical advice was, he replied "Do what I've done and put a long crowbar in the boot. It's the people that are the problem...not the virus". He's a psychiatrist.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

[

Well, if the UK is a net exporter, we make all the currency we need, and presumably can charge a premium for our exports as well! Win-win ...

There really is no difference between £ sterling and 2 ply, other than ability to biodegrade. Makes you think, doesn't it...

How many olive leaves to the UK backed Andrex sheet, then, TN? About 100 or so?

A few years ago someone decided an olive-leaf smoothie was the new superfood healthnut thing to drink, so there was an actual market for them. However the leaves aren't normally worth as much as the olives and their oil. 800 calories per 100g, and I can even use it instead of diesel if I have to. Money really does grow on trees for some people. But what is the intrinsic value of the £, other than the government's ability to tax it's slaves?

 

[Trainee neophyte]

"
...
Have now decided to spread what few assets we have across multiple financial institutions. They cant all go pear-shaped at the same time ? Can they ?

Capital controls will have you wondering what happened - limited withdrawals, limited access, anything over a certain amount confiscated. Have a look at Greece and Cyprus for more info.

I did mention the other day that a sealed jar of cash buried in the back garden wouldn't be a completely stupid thing to do - you need to have the cash before the system falls over, not afterwards. Of course everyone will call you paranoid and crazy, until the capital controls kick in. Oh, and maybe leave a map for the grandkids, just in case...

Think about where Italy is economically right now, and then remind yourself that the Italian banks are the most precarious, and the Italian government the most like Greece of all the EU countries. Financial crisis 2.0? Couldn't possibly happen!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital ... _in_Greece

As a result, the Greek government was forced to immediately close Greek banks for almost 20 days and to implement controls on bank transfers from Greek banks to foreign banks, and limits on cash withdrawals (only €60 per day permitted), to avoid an uncontrolled bank run and a complete collapse of the Greek banking system.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewi ... e0dc4c2685

 

[AES]

My thoughts go out to those on here who are actually affected right now (or very soon will be) - rather than the "theoretical prophets of doom & gloom".

I really do not know what the final answers to all this will be, (any more than anyone else does really, it's all - at best - educated guess work as far as I can tell - and in some cases, not so educated either!).

But I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. Whether or not closing schools (just an example) is "right" or "wrong", who knows really? I honestly don't think anyone knows really, AND we won't know either, until after it's all over and we all compare relative results.

All I CAN say is that here, (a little country of just under 8M people, divided into 26 largely self-governing Kantons), our Kanton, one of just 3 out of the 26, has closed all schools, restaurants, "pubs", shops except food & medicines, etc, etc, whereas neighbouring Kantons have not - at least not yet anyway.

So I would respectfully suggest that it's much better to simply accept that we've all "got a major situation" on our hands, and based on the consistent professional info that we have ALL been getting ("wash your hands, keep your distance, don't go out unless necessary, etc, etc) just act accordingly. As both my wife and I both belong to the high risk group (she more than me unfortunately), that's what we're doing - and it's ALL that we're doing BTW.

The press, TV, and all the other "paid idiots" are having a field day, just as they always do when "something happens".

And the "be sensible" approach is to me much preferable to all sorts of posts saying "this doesn't make sense to me; that doesn't make sense to me; look what THEY'RE doing", blah, blah, blah, that have been appearing here for several days now (and, to be fair, in many other places too). IMO you're only feeding the "journo trolls" and NOT helping anything one little bit.

Oh and yeah - as said at the start, lets all at least start (metaphorically) crossing our fingers for all those on here whose livelihoods have been or are about to be seriously affected, rather than this, IMO anyway, senseless speculation based on NO hard info whatsoever.

With respect to ALL Forum members.

 

[Andy Kev.]

It's depressing that the sense of proportion about this disease is being lost.

The so-called "rout" that is happening on the stock markets seems to me to be an example of contemptible panic but then again that's always the way those people react to things.

It's going to be difficult and for some people fatal but it is not a mega-disease that is going to have anything like the effects of e.g. the black death in medaeval times.

A cure will be found for it and it will pass. In the meantime the idea of limiting social contact/activity is a sensible one and it is only because that idea is so unusual that a febrile atmosphere is being created. The press are of course right to report it but they want to watch their tone because of the way they can shape the mood the public, especially the end of the public not normally given to thinking. Secondly, the sheer amount and omnipresence of reporting needs IMO to be reduced for the common good.

In the meantime, enforced idleness will present a great opportunity to read books we've never got round to.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

This is an article about the media, and media commentary, by someone who (briefly) worked in that field. It's quite sobering - and not at all complimentary. The old maxim of "never believe everything you read in the papers" could perhaps now be rehashed to say, "You're a damned fool if you believe almost anything in much of the media". It very much upholds a feeling I've had for some time, which is that most of the media is rotten, and social media is even worse (Twitter, in particular, is just a sewer when it comes to anything related to politics).

Timely, given the nature of the current crisis, and the need for the accurate dissemination of information and official advice. Well worth a read, I reckon.

https://unherd.com/2020/03/we-dont-dese ... dia-class/

 

[MikeG.]

........enforced idleness will present a great opportunity to read books we've never got round to.

Books? We've got workshops. We've got wood......

 

[Trainee neophyte]

The so-called "rout" that is happening on the stock markets seems to me to be an example of contemptible panic but then again that's always the way those people react to things.

I think you will find that this market collapse has been a long time coming, and if it wasn't for central banks throwing free money at the system for years, the everything bubble wouldn't have been blown, so wouldn't now be deflating. This collapse was waiting for an excuse, and just happened to find a global trade-stopping virus, which will take all the blame for the last 10 years' idiocy. If you were conspiracy minded, you might even think it had been done on purpose, but that would be a step too far, probably.

In effect, they didn't fix the problems in 2008/9, so all growth since then has been fake, built on false assumptions. They're now going to throw EVEN MORE money at it, because that always fixes everything. If we are lucky, they will give free money to the general populace as opposed to their close and intimate billionaire chums, but either way it just means the system has failed, is currently in the process of falling apart, and will be replaced. USA has two aircraft carrier groups in the Middle East at the moment - can we expect one last big hurrah before debt implosion and chaos?

Please note that I really, really want to be wrong, and I want tomorrow to be the same as today, and next week to carry on as normal, and next year to be no worse than last year, and if we are very lucky, even a bit better. I just don't believe it is going to happen that way, and I am amazed it has lasted as long as this.

 

[Andy Kev.]

........enforced idleness will present a great opportunity to read books we've never got round to.

Books? We've got workshops. We've got wood......

I imagine I'll be standing at my bench with a book opened at the page of a desperately complex plan, following it line for line like somebody who's good at making beans on toast following a cooking recipe for lobster thermidor.

Actually, I was thinking more of the evenings, as telly is likely to be dismal. The days will no doubt be filled with the tzisch of freshly sharpened planes, the bangs of mallet on chisels and the curses which accompany glue ups.

 

[MikeG.]

I am seeing the thread title as "no". What on earth is that supposed to mean in the context of this forum and this thread?

 

[Andy Kev.]

The so-called "rout" that is happening on the stock markets seems to me to be an example of contemptible panic but then again that's always the way those people react to things.

I think you will find that this market collapse has been a long time coming, and if it wasn't for central banks throwing free money at the system for years, the everything bubble wouldn't have been blown, so wouldn't now be deflating. This collapse was waiting for an excuse, and just happened to find a global trade-stopping virus, which will take all the blame for the last 10 years' idiocy. If you were conspiracy minded, you might even think it had been done on purpose, but that would be a step too far, probably.

In effect, they didn't fix the problems in 2008/9, so all growth since then has been fake, built on false assumptions. They're now going to throw EVEN MORE money at it, because that always fixes everything. If we are lucky, they will give free money to the general populace as opposed to their close and intimate billionaire chums, but either way it just means the system has failed, is currently in the process of falling apart, and will be replaced. USA has two aircraft carrier groups in the Middle East at the moment - can we expect one last big hurrah before debt implosion and chaos?

Please note that I really, really want to be wrong, and I want tomorrow to be the same as today, and next week to carry on as normal, and next year to be no worse than last year, and if we are very lucky, even a bit better. I just don't believe it is going to happen that way, and I am amazed it has lasted as long as this.

A lot of people have been predicting the next crash given the lack of real change in financial systems. It's one reason that I've kept my modest savings in cash even though interest rates are so dismal. Maybe I should have bought a few ounces of gold.

I read an account of the last crash by a bloke called Adam Tooze in a bid to understand what went on. The book is imaginatively called Crashed. It's a bit of a door stopper and very thorough and it does provide some eye-opening insights. Now that could be one to read in the next few weeks.

 

[Andy Kev.]

As for the thread title, I wonder if the mods were thinking of binning it (I wonder even more as to what lies behind their olympian decisions) and one of them might have put a rejection to bin it in the wrong place while replying to another.

 

[marcros]

Is it not just accidentally changed by a user?

 

[marcros]

Yep, trainee by the look of it.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Yep, trainee by the look of it.

I dindo nuffin!

 

[Trainee neophyte]

The so-called "rout" that is happening on the stock markets seems to me to be an example of contemptible panic but then again that's always the way those people react to things.

I think you will find that this market collapse has been a long time coming, and if it wasn't for central banks throwing free money at the system for years, the everything bubble wouldn't have been blown, so wouldn't now be deflating. This collapse was waiting for an excuse, and just happened to find a global trade-stopping virus, which will take all the blame for the last 10 years' idiocy. If you were conspiracy minded, you might even think it had been done on purpose, but that would be a step too far, probably.

In effect, they didn't fix the problems in 2008/9, so all growth since then has been fake, built on false assumptions. They're now going to throw EVEN MORE money at it, because that always fixes everything. If we are lucky, they will give free money to the general populace as opposed to their close and intimate billionaire chums, but either way it just means the system has failed, is currently in the process of falling apart, and will be replaced. USA has two aircraft carrier groups in the Middle East at the moment - can we expect one last big hurrah before debt implosion and chaos?

Please note that I really, really want to be wrong, and I want tomorrow to be the same as today, and next week to carry on as normal, and next year to be no worse than last year, and if we are very lucky, even a bit better. I just don't believe it is going to happen that way, and I am amazed it has lasted as long as this.

A lot of people have been predicting the next crash given the lack of real change in financial systems. It's one reason that I've kept my modest savings in cash even though interest rates are so dismal. Maybe I should have bought a few ounces of gold.

I read an account of the last crash by a bloke called Adam Tooze in a bid to understand what went on. The book is imaginatively called Crashed. It's a bit of a door stopper and very thorough and it does provide some eye-opening insights. Now that could be one to read in the next few weeks.

After the crash, all the experts, and especially the economists, will appear on TV and tell us that these were unprecedented conditions, and it has never happened before, but most importantly, no-one could have seen it coming.

 

[RogerS]

Well, listening to the Three Musketeers just now on the radio, they came across rather well, I thought. Sensibly proposed and none of the draconian "If you are Over-70 then you will stay at home for the next four months'. Usual media exaggeration which some of us, myself included , fell for.

No outright closure of bars, pubs etc. No need TBH because they will wither through lack of business.

The only thing I'm not now clear on and that is if we all avoid social contact as much as possible then how will herd immunity build-up ?