copies

[Mr T]

I wish I knew awkward sods smell like!! It would be useful.

Chris

 

[mailee]

I have just built a six panel door for someone. I used one of the other doors in his home as a pattern although my door is wider, is this wrong then? Could I be sued over it? :?

 

[promhandicam]

I have just built a six panel door for someone. I used one of the other doors in his home as a pattern although my door is wider, is this wrong then? Could I be sued over it? :?

In all likelihood the door you have made is a generic design made by hundreds of different companies or individuals so there isn't an issue. What was originally being discussed was the copying of a piece that could easily be identified as coming from a particular designer and had some unique features to it.

Steve

 

[mailee]

PHEW! :lol:

 

[bugbear]

So far I'm getting around 60% of the jobs I pitch for - the rest I consider my failure rather than the result of a sneaky client.

If clients are following the standard "get three quotes" advice, you're beating the odds by a good margin - nice work!

BugBear

 

[frugal]

Andy, if you see an item of furniture in a magazine and copied the furniture item we are back to square one of this thread, might not be the magazine you are copying but the discussion earlier could then be said to be the fact. The magazine has copyright and the item of furniture has rights?

There is a difference between Copyright and Intellectual Property Rights. Copyright means that you can not take the article from the magazine and publish it yourself. IPR means that you can not take the furniture described in the article and make it yourself.

Books with plans usually come with a statement saying what you can use the plans for; typically this is "a single instance for non commericial use".

 

[frugal]

If the customer insists on a break-down I smell an awkward sod and walk...

As a customer if the maker can not give me a breakdown then I smell a fleecing and walk away... I am not looking for a minute by minute breakdown, but at least materials and labour with a breakdown further on a big job. Just to stop people doing what you did which was add 25% because you thought you could get away with it :wink:

 

[Harbo]

The 6 panel door was a result of the "Grand Tours to Europe" in the 17th Century - the Gentry bringing back Classical designs - it's based on the "Classical" building façade - window outlines.
Well that's what it said on telly the other night?

Hardly copyrighted?

Rod

 

[BradNaylor]

If the customer insists on a break-down I smell an awkward sod and walk...

As a customer if the maker can not give me a breakdown then I smell a fleecing and walk away... I am not looking for a minute by minute breakdown, but at least materials and labour with a breakdown further on a big job. Just to stop people doing what you did which was add 25% because you thought you could get away with it :wink:

If a customer wants a price for a piece of furniture I give them a price for a piece of furniture.

If a customer wants a price for a kitchen I give them a price for a kitchen.

How I arrive at that price is immaterial. There is nothing to stop the potential client comparing my price with other makers; indeed I would encourage them to do just that. I know that I am competitive.

Surely that is exactly how a free market should work.


And I didn't add 25% because I 'thought I could get away with it'. I added 25% because that brought my price up to what my experience tells me is the market price.

If I can sell at the market price and make a large profit then I must be very efficient. This deserves reward.

:lol:

 

[mr grimsdale]

If the customer insists on a break-down I smell an awkward sod and walk...

As a customer if the maker can not give me a breakdown then I smell a fleecing and walk away... I am not looking for a minute by minute breakdown, but at least materials and labour with a breakdown further on a big job. Just to stop people doing what you did which was add 25% because you thought you could get away with it :wink:

If they ask me for a breakdown my first feeling is mind yer own business! Basically I wouldn't do it unless there was a good reason; can't think what.
Not that I'd have any objection to talking about pricing in an informal way. My experience of fussy price conscious clients is that they are never satisfied and often end up with a crap job because they have gone by price instead of trusting somebody who'd do a good job, for which a 25% mark up may be good value. 25% of what though? It's not as though pricing is that accurate to start with.

 

[Windy*miller]

Sometimes as a customer (particularly with the kitchen example) a breakdown at some level helps me to understand where the money is going so that I can make sure I'm not spending it on the wrong priorities. Maybe I've specified some aspect of the work which is complicated in a way which I'm not aware of and therefore expensive and I would be happy to change it to something easier. I think that type of discussion is entirely reasonable.

 

[big soft moose]

it depends what is being built - as a customer i wouldn't expect to see a breakdown for a table or even a kitchen - but if someone was building a house or doing a complicated fit out i would expect to see some degree of breakdown, at least to the different phases (not least because they would want paying in phases most likely)

the other thing is if the tradesman want to alter the price upward once work has started i would want to know why, and see a breakdown of the increased costs.

at work we hire a lot of contractors and the process their is slightly different as we normally pay for materials directly , and only pay the tradesmen for their time , i that circumstance we do want to see a total breakdown of costs.

---

on the flip side I do, or at least used to do freelance treework , and it was entirely usual to provide a breakdown to a point - e.g my time £200 per day (400 for a climbing job) , chipper hire £50 pd etc - but if a client wanted to know how i arrived at my day rate that was a different matter, imo thats what i'm worth in that market and if they dont like it they are welcome to go elsewhere

 

[PAC1]

What I see in my day job especially when people are quoting as a sub contractor is they will give a price then be asked for a breakdown and then the contractor will try to accept part or parts of the quote. Sooner or later there is a problem and this keeps me well employed

Equally without the breakdown the client will not know that a part of what he specified which was on his nice to have list rather than essential requirements list has cost half the budget and he could happily save money by omitting the nice to have bit. Of course the more commercially aware will point this out early in the process and ask if the fancy widgets are really necessary.