copies

[squib]

I was wondering what the general opinion was about copying someone elses design without the designers knowledge,I dropped a comment into an earlier post but nobody acknowledged it and it has been bugging me today, it is not that i am worried it is more that ,if i saw one of my designs plagiarised, i am not sure how i would feel....any thoughts please?

 

[Shane]

I'm sure there must be copyright issues, I'd be a bit miffed if my stuff was copied, but I suppose these things happen in the age of the net

edit, I suppose it would depend if I was asked first

 

[Jamesc]

I think for most of us we would be pretty miffed as a first reaction, in spite of the old say that plagurism being the sincerest form of flattery.

But on reflection I for one could not say hand on heart that I had not copied something I'd seen, either wittingly or otherwise. I guess the main criteria I'd use is is it takeing bread from my mouth, i.e steeling income that I may well have had.

I agree it is common courtesy to seek permission first but as I'm unlikely to come up with a totally unique idea I'm happy yo live and let live.

Just my 2p worth

James

 

[Ironballs]

I thought we discussed this somewhere recently and I seemed to recall that it was down to whether the piece could be said to be of a style or brand that was unique to the designer. It's a very grey area though, remember a few years ago when M&S produced a range of clothes that were almost the same as that produced by a boutique designer. Think they had to go to court to resolve it

 

[Steve Maskery]

I believe (although I can't quote you chapter and verse) that it is not illegal to make a copy of something for your own use. Things change, however, if you copy something and then offer it for sale. Nor it is sufficient to alter just a little bit nd claim it's not the same - if it is substantially the same you can find yourself in hot water. These are Design Right laws rather than copyright.

However, I have no idea to what extent the law is actually exercised in regard to furniture.

This was the subject of the very first article I ever had published in GWW, Jan 1997. My dining chairs are unique, but anyone can see that they are hybrid of Ercol, Charles Rennie Mackintosh and Sam Malloof.

Jake might be the one to talk to regarding the law.
S

 

[squib]

The grey area seems to be to do with money, I had a design directly copied in a house and after the initial feelings of shock i did find it flattering but decided that if i saw the same design sold i would have felt differently,same copy but different moral?

 

[Einari Rystykaemmen]

Some woodworking book which contains several table designs from several authors, describes copyright issue like this:

- You can build one table of each model for your own use
- You can build one table of each model and give it away for free
- You can't build a table and sell it

In other words... In this specific case copyright is violated when any design of this book is build and sold to third party.

Hope this helps...

 

[lurker]

Even if its just for you, it's only polite to ask.

I saw a design in a mag -asked the editor to pass my name to the designer (& why).
The designer, once he had assured himself I was just making one for myself & how enthusiastic I was about the design, could not have been more helpful. He even sent me some drawings of critical dimensions :lol:

 

[zeppfly]

if you were to copy my work:
DO tell me the reason you think my design is so fantastic :lol:
DONT do a better job and then rub my nose in it
that is my view but then again
i'm so vain i think this thread is about me

 

[studders]

Be interesting to know exactly how something like say a 'Generic' Table with 'Designer details' added can be copyrighted. Surely they have copied a Table in the first place?

And.. if they haven't copyrighted it surely it's 'fair game' to copy?

 

[PAC1]

As the author of an "original work" you have the right to stop others copying your original work. So the author of an original table could stop someone from copying it or if they have copied and sold it, the original author could demand payment of damages and an account for the profits made by the person copying the work.
An original work does not have to be totally unique such that it would only apply to the first ever table. If 20 of us were asked to design and build a table for 6 people to go in a particular space all 20 would be original works. If someone then copied one of those originals then that is an infringement of the copyright in that original.

However if someones original work inspires you to make a further adaptation of the design that may well be your original work even though it is clearly based on the design that inspired. This is a difficult area of law as it depends how close to the original the inspired work is. It will depend upon the facts.

Some people are happy for other woodworkers to copy and sell their design. For instance my avatar is my copy of a Hal Taylor design. Hal is happy for me to make and sell as many as I like. In turn Hal was clearly inspired by the late great Sam Malloof.

We should be bothered about slavishly copying other peoples designs, if only because they may knock on our door one day and say you know the copy of my table that you made and sold well I sell them for 7k each. You now owe me 7k.

Equally we should be inspired by each other and create our own originals inspired by a bit of each of several peoples ideas.

There ends the legal and philosophical lesson!

 

[studders]

you know the copy of my table that you made and sold well I sell them for 7k each. You now owe me 7k.

!

But what if I say I made mine first, so you must have copied me? You now owe me your house.
How do I copyright mine in the first place? Surely just claiming mine is 'The Original Work' is not enough? :duno:


Edited to say.. I agree about taking inspiration and adding or changing it to make our own idea. The problem is that although I can come up with many designs, all of them tend to be crap, in the cold light of Day.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Then you provide evidence that yours came first.

If you did copy it, then you must have seen it somewhere. Say in a mag. That mag is dated, and the editor will have the original manuscript, also dated. If you can show that that yours was extant prior to that, you win. If you can't, you lose.

Maybe that is a bit simplistic, but it's essentially correct. Evidence.

S

 

[Karl]

I think it was David Charlesworth (beginning of book 2) who said that original designs are as rare as hens teeth. Very little is original. Almost everything is inspired by what has gone before.

Cheers

Karl

 

[PAC1]

Studders. It will be a question of fact which came first. If I made my design in 2001 and you copied it in 2009. I might get the client to state when he bought it. There would also be an invoice describing the work and a dated photograph. You would then need to prove that you made yours before 2001. I might also have put the photo on my website in 2002 and be able to prove that you visited my website in 2009 and then placed a thread on this forum asking how to make my design. It depends upon the facts that can be proven.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I agree, Karl, but there is a difference between inspiration and plagiarism.

As PAC said, it would depend on the detail of the copy.

The good news (if you are the originator, anyway) is that copies are rarely as good as the original. If something is so good that I wish to copy it, it's probably been designed and made by someone at the top of their profession, and any copy I try to make is likely to be inferior. If I was as good as they are, I'd be designing high-quality work myself, rather than having to come second-best to someone else.

S

 

[PAC1]

Studders. I suffer from the same inspirational problem. Hence my avatar is a direct copy!!!!

 

[studders]

Studders. I suffer from the same inspirational problem. Hence my avatar is a direct copy!!!!

:lol:

It is a bit of a downer to sit up half the night designing a 'Masterpiece' only to wake up in the Morning, take one look at it, and then bin it.

On the copying front then, if someone can prove you've copied their design then you may be in bother so, if you value your designs then, keep proof of when you designed it?

 

[Windy*miller]

This doesn't necessarily help with any specific case, but the Intellectual Property Office (used to be the Patent Office) website is quite helpful in explaining the principles of the law in this respect.

www.ipo.gov.uk/d-designright.htm

 

[PAC1]

Studders. Yes if you think it is your original design, date and keep your designs, photograph the completed work. keep the invoice which should descibe the work in more terms then just "1 No Table" and if possible a signed receipt.