Contrasting wood advice?

[JakeS]

I'm trying to make an edition of this game as a gift, veneering the shapes onto wooden tiles. It's a print-and-play game, so normally it'd be printed out onto labels and stuck down to cardboard, but wood is obviously much nicer!

I've played around with a series of punches which do a surprisingly good job of cutting little circular holes out of, or little circular pieces from the veneers, so I'm most of the way there. I can cut the odd shapes by hand easily enough, but the veneer is a bit too fragile - even with masking tape across the back - to deal with a slightly smaller circle being cut out of a larger circle to leave an outline, so I'm planning on just replacing all the outlined circles with circles of a different colour wood. It doesn't matter in game terms, so long as they're distinguishable from the 'full' ones.

The problem is that the selection pack of veneers I got from eBay to try out marquetry doesn't have so many varieties of shade to them, and my experience of different woods isn't that wide... can anyone point me towards a pair of woods which are readily available (either in veneer form or that I could cut my own from) which contrast nicely with each other and with maple, which I'll be using as a base? I've tried combinations of black walnut, a couple of different types of 'mahogany' and sapele, but the difference in tone isn't pronounced enough to be easily distinguishable, as it needs to be for a game. I wondered about cherry, since I have some I could cut veneer from, but I seem to recall that it changes colour more significantly than most woods when exposed to the light?

Alternatively, is it feasible to dye wood veneers before cutting and using them? Does anyone have any tips on that? I've heard reference to 'ebonising' wood before, is that simply the same as dyeing it black?

 

[marcros]

what about oak and walnut?

I guess that you dont need much at all. I bought some veneers on ebay, some of which are quite small pieces. I can have a look and see if there is anything suitable if it helps. There may well be enough of something for you to use. Maple, black walnut and holly would be an interesting combination- the holly being bright white.

ebonising works for some timbers- certainly oak and walnut. I believe also mahogany. It is done in several ways I believe, the only one i have tried is by adding rusty metal to vinegar and painting it on. the ferrous solution reacts with the tannic acid in the timber and goes black. It is an easy experiment to do. Most people probably use a bit of wire wood in vinegar. It was an instant reaction that made the oak jet black. You could also have a play with fuming oak with Amonia.

 

[JakeS]

what about oak and walnut?

Oak may work, but I'll have to be more careful with the cuts - I neglected to mention that I'd tried it, and the open grain makes the veneer much more fragile than the walnut (which is in turn much more fragile than the maple!) when cut so small.

Maple, black walnut and holly would be an interesting combination- the holly being bright white.

Is holly so white? I was sure I'd seen some which was a similar tone to maple before... maybe sapwood?

ebonising works for some timbers- certainly oak and walnut. I believe also mahogany. It is done in several ways I believe, the only one i have tried is by adding rusty metal to vinegar and painting it on. the ferrous solution reacts with the tannic acid in the timber and goes black. It is an easy experiment to do. Most people probably use a bit of wire wood in vinegar. It was an instant reaction that made the oak jet black. You could also have a play with fuming oak with Amonia.

This sounds perfect, though - I already have the materials and black versus the mid-to-dark reddish brown of the mahogany would almost certainly be a good contrast. I shall have a go, thanks! Presumably I have to leave the steel wool in the vinegar for quite some time to start with?

I guess this is the same reaction to the one that makes oak go black in contact with iron, so it's a fairly permanent effect and a coat of oil or lacquer will be fine?

 

[marcros]

what about oak and walnut?

Oak may work, but I'll have to be more careful with the cuts - I neglected to mention that I'd tried it, and the open grain makes the veneer much more fragile than the walnut (which is in turn much more fragile than the maple!) when cut so small.

Maple, black walnut and holly would be an interesting combination- the holly being bright white.

Is holly so white? I was sure I'd seen some which was a similar tone to maple before... maybe sapwood?

ebonising works for some timbers- certainly oak and walnut. I believe also mahogany. It is done in several ways I believe, the only one i have tried is by adding rusty metal to vinegar and painting it on. the ferrous solution reacts with the tannic acid in the timber and goes black. It is an easy experiment to do. Most people probably use a bit of wire wood in vinegar. It was an instant reaction that made the oak jet black. You could also have a play with fuming oak with Amonia.

This sounds perfect, though - I already have the materials and black versus the mid-to-dark reddish brown of the mahogany would almost certainly be a good contrast. I shall have a go, thanks! Presumably I have to leave the steel wool in the vinegar for quite some time to start with?

I guess this is the same reaction to the one that makes oak go black in contact with iron, so it's a fairly permanent effect and a coat of oil or lacquer will be fine?

same reaction. if you look in the showcase gallery, bobman has ebonised some mahogany on a horse scrollsaw project. I had a brief chat with him about how he did it, and it was a similar method but I dont have the details he sent me. Might be worth trying it on a bit. If you dont get it as dark as you want, try painting a bit of strong tea on it first, which should give you some additional tanin to react with.

I cant remember whether i left my rusty metail in the vinegar for a day or two or just used it. wire wool will probably disolve pretty instantly anyway.

if you can m,ake it work with mahogany/sapele, the grain may be easier to work with.

 

[andersonec]

I would be inclined to change the base colour to say Cherry or some other mid range shade you already have then your Maple and walnut would work fine.

Andy

 

[JakeS]

I would be inclined to change the base colour to say Cherry or some other mid range shade you already have then your Maple and walnut would work fine.

You know, that's a pretty good idea too - I'd been sticking to the maple 'cause it's the lightest wood I have, and the original has a white background... but it doesn't have to be that way around.


I'm trying the ebonising this evening - steel wool in vinegar for about half an hour turned the oak a kind of bluish grey colour, so I'm leaving it a bit longer. If it doesn't work out, I'll give it a go this way around too - thanks for the suggestion!

 

[marcros]

try it on the mahogany too jake, just because i want to see the result

 

[JakeS]

try it on the mahogany too jake, just because i want to see the result

Initial results - after soaking steel wool in vinegar for about an hour then daubing it on test scraps of walnut, mahogany and oak were disappointing; the colour darkened ever so slightly - mostly on the oak - but not much. I'll leave the steel wool in the vinegar overnight and try it again tomorrow evening, see how it fares then.

After reading around a bit online, some people seem to be suggesting that you should put the steel wool in water after it's had a good soak in the vinegar, because apparently the vinegar strips it of any protective anti-rust coating it may have had, but the water is needed to make it properly rust. I don't remember my organic chemistry nearly well enough to say either way, so I tore the wool in half and stuck half in some water. Going back another hour later, both seemed to be releasing gas... and the entire garage smelled of vinegar. Others say to leave it a week, so I'll try that too.

I also tried taking a tiny scrap out and leaving it on top of one of the pieces of oak - the area immediately below that went a sooty black colour within an hour. If I still don't have any luck just painting the liquids on tomorrow evening, I'll try leaving bits of the steel wool directly on all three species as well, and report back!




(I also tried simply staining some scraps with black drawing ink, just for the hell of it. The walnut soaked it up readily but became significantly more fragile in the process, and it just sat on one side of the mahogany and didn't soak in at all.)

 

[Nick Gibbs]

What about bog oak, rather than all this dying business? I've got some small bits you could cut into veneer if you're interested. You could do bog oak and normal oak, retaining the texture, but getting a good contrast. In fact you could go for brown oak, normal oak and bog oak for a real oaky effect.

Nick

 

[Chrispy]

How about Maple, Yew, Walnut
or Maple, Walnut & Rosewood

or if you would like some black veneer I can send you some, just ask.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I like the idea of yew and English walnut. Pete Martin at Good Woodworking used to use a lot of American walnut and maple, which was very dramatic, but a bit lacking in character, I felt. I like there to be some synergy between species, as is certainly the case with yew and English walnut, though they are both quite wild, so using them together might be confusing.

Nick

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I assume you don't want to spend forever finishing the job: it might pay to pick woods that have broadly the same grains. If you put a dense grain like maple next to, say, wenge, the contrast might be great, but the finish might be odd.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I assume you don't want to spend forever finishing the job: it might pay to pick woods that have broadly the same grains. If you put a dense grain like maple next to, say, wenge, the contrast might be great, but the finish might be odd.

Very good point. And migration of the dust may be an issue too, particularly if the lighter wood is more open grained.

 

[JakeS]

What about bog oak, rather than all this dying business?

But the dyeing business is interesting! After leaving the steel wool in a day and daubing a little on, my test scraps have all gone noticeably darker. Some more than others, though - the mahogany continues its general reluctance to absorb liquids, which I think is retarding the staining a little. I think I may have to leave it a bit longer, still.

For what it's worth:

The top-left three (american black walnut on top left, 'mahogany' in the middle and some variety of oak on the right) are all untouched. Well, unless you count a little bit of double-sided tape!

The bottom-left three have all been given a treatment with very strong tea, then a single coat of the steel-wool-soaked-vinegar and left for an hour or more.

The right-hand-side ones have had three or four coats of the vinegar concoction, the top with tea and the bottom without.

The oak and walnut have both gone pretty much black, and have the colour leeched out of them; the oak is a bit more patchy. The mahogany I would only really call a success with the tea and multiple coats of vinegar; the darkened walnut is probably my favourite so far!





Yew and rosewood are both good suggestions, as well - I think I have some small pieces of each that I can try quite easily, I'll give them a go too. Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[JakeS]

I had a bit of a test with a couple of the suggestions (glued over some offcuts, so not at all square or tidy!):

(Clockwise from top left: cherry with inlaid maple and mahogany; maple with inlaid mahogany and cherry; cherry with inlaid maple and ebonised walnut; maple with mahogany and ebonised oak.)

I really like the way the ebonising has turned out. The test scraps I did were a bit patchy in places - I suspect leaving the concoction longer and/or applying more coats may solve this - but there were easily enough good bits to get a couple of circles out of it, and it looks fantastic in situ. I think the oak looks a bit darker than the walnut - possibly because it's a bit more blue in hue. I also like the suggestion to try a mid-range background with the lightest and darkest colours for the spots - it makes them pop a lot more. Thanks, guys!

I'll have a go with another couple of woods when I get the time, but for now I think the cherry with inlaid maple and black is my favourite.

 

[marcros]

have you tried the rustiest metal you can find- mine was jet black after a single coat. the vinegar was out of the gerkins because it was on hand at the time. At most the mixture was left for 24 hours. all look good- i think you have chosen the right one though

 

[JakeS]

have you tried the rustiest metal you can find- mine was jet black after a single coat. the vinegar was out of the gerkins because it was on hand at the time.

I suppose I could scrape some off the shed hinges! The half of the steel wool that I left in water has started to go rusty already, but the one in the vinegar is still unrusted. I'll leave them both longer, if the vinegar one doesn't become at least a bit orange soon I'll move all the steel wool into the water. It was straight white malt vinegar, I have no idea how strong it is compared to other vinegars - or perhaps something left over from the gherkins helped yours along?

Do you happen to know whether the vinegar itself is useful to the reaction, or whether it's just supposed to help the rusting along?

 

[marcros]

have you tried the rustiest metal you can find- mine was jet black after a single coat. the vinegar was out of the gerkins because it was on hand at the time.

I suppose I could scrape some off the shed hinges! The half of the steel wool that I left in water has started to go rusty already, but the one in the vinegar is still unrusted. I'll leave them both longer, if the vinegar one doesn't become at least a bit orange soon I'll move all the steel wool into the water. It was straight white malt vinegar, I have no idea how strong it is compared to other vinegars - or perhaps something left over from the gherkins helped yours along?

Do you happen to know whether the vinegar itself is useful to the reaction, or whether it's just supposed to help the rusting along?

Edited...

i cant remember the chemistry, so i looked on google after posting. the vinegar is a weak acid which removes the oxide coating on the iron (steel wool). this coating is ferrous oxide. This iron then reacts with oxygen to form ferric oxide (rust). so the vinegar is important, but within reason the strength and type of it isnt. my mental capacity is gone, but this may be why if something is submerged in still water, it may not get enough oxygen to it and might not rust. that last statement may be absolute rubbish of course, and the chemistry but is based on "yahoo answers" so could fall in the same category!