combination square woes

[mickthetree]

When my father asked me what I wanted for christmas, I thought it was about time I improved my accuracy and I asked for a combination square. After some looking round for a descent English manufacturer, I came across Fisco and specifically their 58ME combination square with protractor and centre finder.

Christmas day, I was all smiles in front of my father, but I was somewhat disappointed.

Now I'm not sure this is specific to this model or generally to combination square, maybe you can let me know what yours is like:

The square, protractor and centre finder are all held on the rule by a brass pin. This pin sits in a housing and when the items are removed from the rule, the pin and spring are free to drop out on the floor and be lost forever. Nothing to retain them. Could easily get lost in a tool box.

The face of the square has a sort of ripple across the lower half. The top half is pretty flat but its not consistent and not flat.

If I set the face of the protractor to the face of the square when they are both mounted, the protractor points to somewhere between 90 and 91 degrees. Is this as accurate as they get? am I expecting too much?

The edges of the face of the square are also pretty rough. Could do with de burring.

So a combination of what to me is poor manufacture but also design.

I'm going to pop into my local hardware store at the wknd to have a look at some of theirs and see if the pins fall out. I'm sure one of the Chinese ones I saw looked better than this.

Or am I fussing over nothing?

 

[thomvic]

It looks pretty impressive on the Fisco website but perhaps too much in one tool? At £20 you are probably getting what you paid for.

Richard

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Good ones are really expensive http://uk.farnell.com/starrett/435-18-4 ... dp/1264295 You should be able to tune it up a bit, or you could take it back and see if the rest are the same.

Pete

 

[thomvic]

Wow!!!!

That is veeeeery expensive!

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Its cheaper over the pond http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002CSBNE/?ta ... nkCode=asn

Pete

 

[mickthetree]

Thanks guys WOW! that is a lot of money!

It was cheap, but I'm still amazed that something so fundamental as the brass pin not falling out was part of the "design". And I dont see the point in calling something a precision instrument when it isnt precise.

Anyway, I think I'm going to send it back and look out for a descent second hand one.

 

[matthewwh]

I picked up a 6" starret on ebay a few months back and have been chuffed to bits with it.

Alternatively Stanley do a Rabone combination square at £28.50+VAT (just the square not the protractor and centre finder). I haven't handled one myself but most of the Rabone stuff looks to be good quality - class 1 stated accuracy, steel rules stamped with correct at 20 degrees C etc.

Cheers,


Matthew

 

[speed]

i have a fisco square for site work, its cast and very heavy, its the 53 i think, verry well made,
i think the 58 is the same as the 52, they are realy lightweight and flimsy,
if you upgrade buy the best you can aford,

 

[OPJ]

I've just bought a 12" "Empire" from Axminster (less than £12, I think). I remember Good Woodworking had a lot of good things to say about them a few years ago. Haven't had a chance to use or check mine yet. I think they are "guarenteed for accuracy" as well...

 

[joiner_sim]

Squares. A metal engineers set square is the most accurate you can get.

 

[bugbear]

When my father asked me what I wanted for christmas, I thought it was about time I improved my accuracy and I asked for a combination square.

As has been discussed in other threads, combination squares are about versatility and convenience, not super-accuracy.

Even the good ones are less accurate than "ordinary" squares in the same price league.

"Fairly" accurate combo squares exist, but are very pricy.

BugBear

 

[thomvic]

Are we getting ripped off or what?

$192 (£126) from Amazon in the US and £308 from Farnell in UK for what seems to be the same thing. I doubt that the slight difference in part numbers (435-12-4R or 435-18-4R) is relevant so just what are Farnell up to? The Amazon one is not available for shipment to UK but Farnell add £15.95 for shipment from US.

Richard

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

If you want all the flash, with accuracy (as these are adjustable or correctable), then think Colen Clenton ..

http://www.hntgordon.com.au/colenclenton.htm

The CCs are the 6" square and mitre square. That 4" square is an absolute bargain - an adjustable Crown (copy of the CC) - about $40 AUD new (the trammel is a vintage Preston, the square saddle is Bridge City, and the dovetail square is one I made).

If you just want accuracy, get a machinist square. Even the cheap ones are pretty spot on.

I bought all my Starrett combination squares on eBay (USA). A 12" with all the fruit cost about $30. My favourite is a 6" double square.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

If you want all the flash, with accuracy (as these are adjustable or correctable), then think Colen Clenton ..

Whilst his squares are adjustable for square (which is good for long term accuracy), I don't like his use of brass blades, which will surely wear.

Precision tools are made from hardened steel for a reason.

I've seen hardened steel combo square rules with getting on for 1/32" of "saddle back" (*), so the scope for wear is very real.

BugBear

(*) and corrected them via my surface plate, natch

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Speaking of adjustable squares, what's the best way to true them?
Loosen them off, cramp stock and blade to a square block and then sneak up on both screws?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Piece of blank paper taped to edge of a table.

Using the square, draw a thin line square to edge of table.

Flip square and draw another thin line alongside it.

Are they parallel?

Set square and repeat until that are perfectly parallel with each other.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Thanks, Derek
That's what I've been doing - just wondered if there was a better way without a trip to specsavers
Cheers
Steve

 

[woodbloke]

Thanks, Derek
That's what I've been doing - just wondered if there was a better way without a trip to specsavers
Cheers
Steve

...advisable Steve :lol: :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Chris Knight]

Are we getting ripped off or what?

$192 (£126) from Amazon in the US and £308 from Farnell in UK for what seems to be the same thing. I doubt that the slight difference in part numbers (435-12-4R or 435-18-4R) is relevant so just what are Farnell up to? The Amazon one is not available for shipment to UK but Farnell add £15.95 for shipment from US.

Richard

One will be 12 inches long, the other 18 inches.

 

[matthewwh]

Are we getting ripped off or what?

$192 (£126) from Amazon in the US and £308 from Farnell in UK for what seems to be the same thing. I doubt that the slight difference in part numbers (435-12-4R or 435-18-4R) is relevant so just what are Farnell up to? The Amazon one is not available for shipment to UK but Farnell add £15.95 for shipment from US.

Richard

About £50 of the difference is going to be VAT and Duty. The 12 and the 18 are the length of the rule in inches. It's still a farly substantial discrepancy though.

Cheers,

Matthew