Combi planes

[beech1948]

Hi,

I recently acquired a Record 043 and a 405 with a full complement of blades.

First question is that that I seem to recall a few comments about the possible brittleness of these blades - tungsten steel stamped on them.. What angles should they be sharpened at and is there any advantage in using higher or lower angles.

regards
Alan

 

[bugbear]

Hi,

I recently acquired a Record 043 and a 405 with a full complement of blades.

First question is that that I seem to recall a few comments about the possible brittleness of these blades - tungsten steel stamped on them.. What angles should they be sharpened at and is there any advantage in using higher or lower angles.

I have several Record combination planes . I've never noticed the blades being especially brittle.

The manual (and the famous "planecraft") speaks of 35 degrees (quite steep) being the recommended bevel.

Personally, I normally sharpen these at 30 degrees and have had no problem with edge chipping or excessive wear.

Alf has her famous "Boat Anchors Ahoy" page http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/combinationplanes.html page, from which you can find the original manuals for both your tools.

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/record043manual.pdf
http://www.marquis-kyle.com.au/record405.htm

(the original manuals are not as helpful as you might think, since they gloss over difficulties and their solutions, preferring to emphasize ease of use, even when it's not fully justified)

BugBear

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Hey BB - what's the advantage of the more acute bezel? (Or are you honing a secondary bezel to save mid-project honing time?)

Had a lapping and sharpening fest the other week for my (0)43s and 4(0)5s.

35 degrees was the order of the day for both thick and thin blades. I use 35 for my 043 and 4(0)5s because I find these little blades can be a bit chattery (when I get impatient - hence the glee at having now found 1/8th and 3/16th blades for my 43 even though only 3/16th thick) and so try to leave as much metal on as pos.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Alf]

Where on earth has this tungsten steel brittle thing appeared from? I noticed it cropping up a couple of times amongst the Aussies too. Bizarre 'cos I believe Record marketed it as being more resistant to shock.

As for the angles, I believe there is actually some sense in the recommended high bevel angle. The lower the angle, the longer the bevel. The longer the bevel the less support from the skate. Now you can justifiably argue that there's not much support anyway, but I reckon you might as well get as much as you can.

Common 25° grinding angle.

Original 35° angle.

Quite educational taking pics like this - I had no idea just what poor bedding I was getting on this #45 until I came to look at these. At some point the irons will be persuaded into a suitable curve to negate it, when the tuit shows up.

Cheers, Alf

 

[beech1948]

Hi all,

The comment about "brittleness" seems to have just occured from this forum and ubeat...and I only vaguely remembered those comments. So I'm willing to believe that its just rumour.

I'm going to sharpen a couple of blades today at 35 degrees and then have a try out. I will remember to start the cut at the "wrong" end first but other than this I know nothing having previously preferred to fry electrons with my router.

So any tips would be well recieved.

Also can you create your own cutters...I was wondering about some hollows and rounds style cutters...I wonder from what steel I could use for this.

regards
Alan

 

[Alf]

The comment about "brittleness" seems to have just occured from this forum and ubeat...

I wonder if it's less about the brittleness of the cutter and more about the hardness of the metal uprights those leg-pulling antipodean personages will insist on using in lieu of wood... :-k

As for tips on using it, I'm trying to bash out an article on same (and have been trying for some time...) so sort of want to keep my powder dry so I still get paid... 8-[ :lol: The basics: sharp edges; right hand to push, left hand to press against the fence, don't be tempted to push with the fence hand etc; make sure the skates and fence are all parallel; straight grained wood as far as possible; as thick a shaving as is agreeable to retaining control and the level of finish you want - lighten it up as necessary.

For custom-made cutters, bear in mind only the #55 has adjustable skates to allow for supporting large curves and complex shapes - the #45/#405 relied on additional hollow and round castings to support those blades.

Cheers, Alf

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Looking forward with bated breath...

Would say that for the 043, given its diminutive nature, (I fiound) it is worth adding a wooden fence to the fence (a la 4(0)5 / 55)

Indeed, so far I find that to be the only shortcoming of the 43 - no way to securely add a deeper fence without defacing it.

Steve

 

[Paul Chapman]

I have a #405 and am equally baffled by comments about so-called brittleness of cutters - they seem OK to me and no different from the Stanley #45 cutters. I think the most important thing to note when setting up the plane is that the skates are level with or slightly inside the sides of the cutter.

Hope you enjoy using it - they are really nice when working well.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Alf]

Steve, how smooth is the fence casting on the #43? I was thinking double-sided carpet tape might, perhaps, work? It's amazing what it'll hold and it does, in theory, come off again. 8-[

Cheers, Alf

With a lignum vitae fence to one of her #043s - now dat's posh :shock: :lol:

 

[dunbarhamlin]

lignum vitae, huh? Feathers make better pillows. :mrgreen:
I'm bottom feeding with macassar on mine.

That's a great idea - the fence is smooth - but just 1/2" deeper than the body sole/skate, so given the top weight and all that, an extension will be a Good Thing

Cheers
Steve

 

[beech1948]

Hi,
I was just wondering if anyone had come across anything on the net re use of 405/50 etc. Maybe a video, or a handtools how-to description.

I just checked the usual sources but found little to nothing.
regards
alan

 

[beech1948]

Ok, I just finished using my 043 to cut some housings for a drawer bottom where I needed an exact 1/4 housing.

The 043 seems a good size for this job....small and fairly accurate. It was a bit tricky getting started and then cutting backwards towards self seems very strange. Housing is a good size and fit to my drawer bottom......by the way these are realy just practice drawers for a workshop tool cabinet.....so not too important.

Really pleased with this...anyone want to buy a router ?.

 

[Alf]

And so the slide begins. Mwahahahahahaaaaa... :twisted:

Cheers, Alf

P.S. For housing I assume "groove"?

 

[beech1948]

Hi Alf,

I was so pleased at making this tool work and so well that I got confused between groove, housing, dado etc etc..who cares it works...gosh why am I so pleased.
alan

 

[Alf]

Heh heh. That's an easy one - the #043 is just about the nicest plane ever made and makes grooving, well, groovy. If you haven't already, make yourself some short fence rods and put a nice slick wooden face on the fence and unbelieveably it gets even better. Did you not realise the danger? 'Twas the 043 that introduced me to ploughs and combination planes and look at me now - whole web pages devoted to them. ](*,) :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[JesseM]

I used mine tonight to cut a rabbet. Worked great! It just feels like you have a lot of control with it.

 

[MikeW]

Looking forward with bated breath...

Would say that for the 043, given its diminutive nature, (I fiound) it is worth adding a wooden fence to the fence (a la 4(0)5 / 55)

Indeed, so far I find that to be the only shortcoming of the 43 - no way to securely add a deeper fence without defacing it.

Steve

Unless one owns a Russian variation with countersunk screw holes already in place :lol:

Another possibility is to file the fence on the 043, I did on my 043. Smoothed it using up to 600 grit and then took some steel wool and wax to it. Waxing during use once in a while at that point helps a lot too.

Then again, I may just drill and countersink some fence holes in the 043 one day because the aux fence on the Russian does make a difference.

Take care, Mike

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Record 043 screw holes - dainty little thing.
Stanley 43 no screw holes, 1/4" thick blades - more of a beast.
Both great tools.

 

[MikeW]

Love it when I misspeak!

Sorry Steve. My Miller-a-like also doesn't have screw holes. If making its fence very smooth and waxed doesn't ease its use, guess who's likely to drill some, though?

Now, if it were an original Stanley model...maybe or probably if I believed it would benefit from it. An actual Miller...never. Then again, I would sell it.

Take care, Mike
never listen to a heathen who would modify most tools without much thought...

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Remember drooling over yours Mike (should be OK, though, gunmetal won't rust )
Mine's a Type 6 - not a museum piece but a great working tool.