Cleaning up tee bridle joint bottom

[Eugene Lo]

I am building a pair of saw horses with American White Oak and tried to cut the joint with hand tools only.
I do not have a coping saw so after I saw the side, I chop it like a mortise. The mortise is 12mm width x 44mm length x 57mm deep.

Removing the bulk is fine but the problem I had is getting the base square and level on both side.
I sharpened my chisels (Narex and Japanese), even re-grinding the the bevel to 30 degree but it still takes forever to get it rid of the bump in the middle.
I spent like 1-2 hours just to pairing the end grain, chisel got blunt very quickly and I ended up overshoot it.
Albeit not visible after the joints are assembled, I would like to know if there is a better way to achieve a more clean result?
Mortising chisel? Float? or I just need to get better at chisel pairing?

 

[Just4Fun]

I'm not sure I would bother too much. Nobody will ever see it. That end grain when glued will not add much to the joint strength. There is plenty of long grain to long grain glued area so the joint will be strong. Even without glue I don't think a smooth finish and tight fit on the bottom of the mortice would be particularly important. So overshooting in the middle is not something I would worry about so long as the fit is right at the edges.

As for technique, I would use a coping saw. As you don't have one, I suggest a series of parallel cuts between the cheeks. This would get the bulk out of the way and make the chisel work easier.

Edit: Correct autocorrect!

 

[Jacob]

If you mean removing waste and trimming the end grain at the bottom of your bridle joint then "paring" doesn't come into it - it's more just heavy chopping.
Start about 10mm from the line to chop out the bulk with heavy mallet work and a firmer or mortice chisel.
Then work not quite up to your lines and remove as much as you can carefully
When very close to the line place chisel on the pencil line, or into a cut line and carry on malleting but tilt the chisel slightly inwards - to undercut.
Then it should be a close fit at the line but with a slight void inside, out of sight.
5 minutes work or less.
This sort of mortice chiselling is best done with the workpiece sitting free on a clean worktop, rather than in a vice, but watch out for chippings getting under and leaving impressions. Final finishing off in the vice perhaps.

 

[johnnyb]

Let me help you. Don't use American white oak for hand tool working. It's stupid hard. Get something nice and buttery that's dry but not baked. Say Ash cherry walnut redwood pine European oak Douglas fir. I fitted a howdens door and it had a shiny dark bit of oak where the latch went. I just couldn't drill it. The drill was smoking. Absolute bell iron.

 

[Cabinetman]

Let me help you. Don't use American white oak for hand tool working. It's stupid hard. Get something nice and buttery that's dry but not baked. Say Ash cherry walnut redwood pine European oak Douglas fir. I fitted a howdens door and it had a shiny dark bit of oak where the latch went. I just couldn't drill it. The drill was smoking. Absolute bell iron.

Yes some people say it’s impossible to distinguish from European Oak, but I can tell straight away, not nice to use at all, can’t say I’ve noticed it being hard though, in fact I would say it’s carrotty and not as hard as European Oak, which is a pleasure to chisel across the end grain of.
The other way to remove that waste is to drill it out, straight across, you could drop a couple of metal strips into the saw kerfs to prevent damage to your legs if you find the drill wanders.
Ian

 

[johnnyb]

I think it's how it's dried. Once the moisture levels are really low it's dreadful. Air dried it may be lovely(beech is) but hard kilned it's like iron and shiny off the saw.. euro oak can be nice to work if its not stupid dry and brittle. But oak of any type isn't easy.

 

[recipio]

Another job for a tablesaw
Just make a jig with two toggle clamps to slide along the fence. The piece is held vertically
A Tablesaw will transform your woodworking for the better.!.

 

[Fitzroy]

Work to your mark lines but with an undercut, looks tidy but without the trouble of trying to get the bottom totally level. Obviously work from both sides to avoid blowing out the opposite edge.

 

[Eugene Lo]

Absolute amazing response. Great help.
This is my first post, very much delighted there is a community that is not toxic at all.

Since I was trying to get it done in the bank holiday, so i made a tenon jig and did it with table saw.
The result is fine but just bugged me not able to do it with hand tools. I started woodworking watching Paul Sellers' video so would prefer to learn how to do it by hand so i can still build stuff in apocalypse while fighting zombies.

I am near Oxford. American White Oak is (slightly) more affordable than other European hardwood or American Walnut. No idea why tho.

Again, Thanks for all the warm advice. Much appreciated.

 

[Chubber]

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/coping-saws/cat9790017

Coping saw £7.99p

Two pints of Guinness £10.00 +

Which would be the most useful in 6 months time?

 

[Jacob]

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/coping-saws/cat9790017

Coping saw £7.99p

Two pints of Guinness £10.00 +

Which would be the most useful in 6 months time?

I'll have the Guiness please. I've already got a coping saw.

I'd also add that our OP's saw horse design looks over fussy and not very useful. The best way for a beginner to knock up a saw horse is demonstrated by Robin Clevett, and this design with small refinements is the universally most popular.
There is one essential detail not to be overlooked, which is that the top piece should be shorter than the footprint plan, in order to make it very stable, as they are used for step ups, scaffold board supprts etc. You can stand right on the end of it without it tilting over.

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[Chubber]

Jacob....10 minutes on the naughty step!

 

[recipio]

Mortise and tenon joints rely on absolute precision.Tlhey should be a ' piston fit" Machining is the easiest way ro this.I despair when I see sloppy fitting joints. No amount of glue will rescue them so its better to, adopt a precision approach from the beginning

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Yes some people say it’s impossible to distinguish from European Oak, but I can tell straight away, not nice to use at all, can’t say I’ve noticed it being hard though, in fact I would say it’s carrotty and not as hard as European Oak, which is a pleasure to chisel across the end grain of.
The other way to remove that waste is to drill it out, straight across, you could drop a couple of metal strips into the saw kerfs to prevent damage to your legs if you find the drill wanders.
Ian

Now, that is really interesting. It's a pity we aren't near each other because I'd enjoy putting you to the test on that. I say that because I've had a few make that claim to me face to face. Yet when I've presented them with examples of both types of oak to examine superficially, i.e., basically just look at it, sniff, scratch, etc, they've mostly been unable to distinguish one from the other. I've always concluded those who were mostly successful were just lucky.

Sadly, I no longer have the quite large sets of samples of both types of oak to throw in front of people to test their ability. Personally, even though I've worked a lot of both American white oaks and European oaks, I can't reliably distinguish one from the other. Slainte.

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

To do what you want to do
I glue 80grit onto a flat wooden rule. Then step down the grades until I get to a fine 180 grip
Hope this helps

 

[hennebury]

There is a reason why we had the industrial revolution.
It was probably started by chippies fed up chopping mortises in Oak.

 

[Cabinetman]

Now, that is really interesting. It's a pity we aren't near each other because I'd enjoy putting you to the test on that. I say that because I've had a few make that claim to me face to face. Yet when I've presented them with examples of both types of oak to examine superficially, i.e., basically just look at it, sniff, scratch, etc, they've mostly been unable to distinguish one from the other. I've always concluded those who were mostly successful were just lucky.

Sadly, I no longer have the large'ish sets of samples of both types of oak to throw in front of people to test their ability. personally, even though I've worked quite large volumes of both American white oaks and European oaks, I can't reliably distinguish one from the other. Slainte.

Perhaps the American Oak I have been getting from just one yard is a different kettle of fish to what you have been seeing and using, after all America is a very large place and maybe as growing conditions vary the resultant timber varies too?
Ian

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Perhaps the American Oak I have been getting from just one yard is a different kettle of fish to what you have been seeing and using, after all America is a very large place and maybe as growing conditions vary the resultant timber varies too?
Ian

I suppose that's possible because I was living in Texas, and I think you're somewhere in the north east of the USA. I'm aware of at least eight species of oak that are sold commercially as white oak. Quercus alba is the primary species in the white oak category, and I can't recall more than two or three names of other oaks that fall into that white oak category.

Still, it's my contention that almost no-one can reliably distinguish an American white oak from the very similar European oaks such as Quercus robur and Quercus petraea. But maybe you are one the very rare people that can, ha, ha. Slainte.