Chisels, Carving Chisels, Sharpening Stones and Scrapers....

[wizer]

Yes, all of them

After plenty of searching and researching I have decided on a set of the Kirschen 1101 Bevel Edge Chisels. Could anyone suggest why this might be a silly idea? The chisels will not get a great deal of use. The occaisional cleaning up work.

I have seen an article in a wood mag which takes my fancy. It is a carved bowl and calls specifically for a Straight 12mm No.9 Gouge and a 15mm No.4 Gouge. Could the board recommend a suitible product. I am not sure if I will take to carving. So i'm not sure if it's a good idea to buy a complete set of carver's chisels. I'm also on a budget with this project so might be better to buy just the 2 chisels that I need. A good budget suggestion would be good here.

The project also calls for a gooseneck scraper. I have seen the Veritas Super-Hard Curved Cabinet Scrapers - Set of 3 x 0.024" on Axminster. This a good choice? They have cheaper ones, is it worth going for the veritas? Is that a silly question? :wink:

Finally I have searched and found good reviews on the Ice Bear Waterstone Sharpening Kit Is this a good idda for the beginner/occaisional user? Again, should I go for a cheaper product or will I be wasting my money? Will it be possible to sharpen the gouges with this kit?

Thanks in advance guys...

 

[Alf]

Could anyone suggest why this might be a silly idea?

Nope; they get pretty consistantly well spoken of.

carved

One for Chris or someone

The project also calls for a gooseneck scraper. I have seen the Veritas Super-Hard Curved Cabinet Scrapers - Set of 3 x 0.024" on Axminster. This a good choice? They have cheaper ones, is it worth going for the veritas? Is that a silly question? :wink:

Well if you want all three shapes, that seems like a good deal. Don't ask me, I have Roberts and Lee, Sandvik and old saw blades for scrapers. 8-[] :-$

Finally I have searched and found good reviews on the Ice Bear Waterstone Sharpening Kit Is this a good idda for the beginner/occaisional user?

Well it has everything you need to get started, so yes, I s'pose. If you like waterstones...

Will it be possible to sharpen the gouges with this kit?

Pass, but I doubt it. 'Nother one for the carvers and/or waterstone users.

Cheers, Alf

 

[wizer]

dare I ask what you use for sharpening Alf?

or are you saying you prefer oilstones?

 

[Frank D.]

Hi Wizer,
I'm a novice carver, but I do use gouges quite often to shape. You can do a fine job for the backs with waterstones (although you'll have to be a bit careful not to gouge the stones because they're soft) but you'll need a slipstone or two to polish and put a little bevel on the inside of the gouge. You can also use a few dowels with sandpaper to do this, however, if you don't plan on using them too often it's probably a reasonable alternative. A Dremel with felt wheels and compound also works but is much harder to control (blade geometry is harder to conserve with a power tool on gouges).
This is just to get the ball rolling. I'm sure Chris will be able to comment further.

 

[Alf]

dare I ask what you use for sharpening Alf?

or are you saying you prefer oilstones?

For gouges, oilstones, diamonds or even the dreaded ceramics are, IMO, a better bet than waterstones. Trouble is waterstones are soft, and will get worn quickly - and more importantly - unevenly by gouges. Having said which there are waterstone slips sold specifically for gouges, but personally I find it too easy to end up carving the slipstone instead of honing the gouge. The Ice Bear kit would look after your flat blades just fine, but for the gouges I'd consider something else. For me, it'd be oil stones, but I don't know what the current thinking is amongst the carvers.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Miles968]

Alf, why the 'dreaded' re ceramics?

I have a 'Fine' spyderco that I have used after a red (25um, medium) DMT for about 3 years, and it's quite possible to watch TV, shave, or spy on the man next door in the mirror finish that it can leave on the flat of a blade. My technique may not get the ultimate at the edges so far, but these two have been pretty good to use I think. Certainly the durability of the DMT has been a pleasant surprise.

I also have oilstones, and an old Washita I found secondhand and I am trying all of them at various times. Yet to reach a 'religious' position on the matter, which is probably a good thing....

The only slight niggle is that the Spyderco is not _perfectly_ flat which it jolly well should be. I should have looked more carefully when buying.

I just acquired another ~20 chisels in a junk sale so some more practice is in order

Miles

 

[wizer]

Frank, I have a dremmel, do I just need to buy the carving attatchment? Do you think it's worth going down that route if I am likely only doing this once or twice?

If I am buying gouges, which ones are good?

Oh and if I go for oilstones, which product should I look at?

Cheers guys

 

[Les Mahon]

A good budget suggestion would be good here.

I use Ashley Isles and Pfeil carving gouges. Both are excelent and not really crazy money for the quality. I see that axminster have stooped stocking Ashley Isles so I'm hoping someone can come up with a supplier... I get mine from a carver in West Cork, so not much use for you! Pfeil can be got from http://www.dick.biz/cgi-bin/dick.storefront/EN?PIG=Google&PID=FineWoodworkingTools

I would go for the clifton cabinet scrapers http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21776&recno=6 but having said that I haven't seen or used the Veritas ones - if only Rob would be so kind as to get the Irish suppliers to stock more Veritas stuff I'd give them a shot

As to sharpening, the waterstones will work fine, but you will need one of these

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=23399&recno=11

to do the inside of the gouges. Also, acurate sharpening of carving gouges is a bit of an art form - I have to admit I gave up and went down the Tormek route.

HTH
Les

 

[Alf]

Alf, why the 'dreaded' re ceramics?

The only slight niggle is that the Spyderco is not _perfectly_ flat which it jolly well should be.

There's your answer, Miles. More often than not they're not flat; I nearly went insane getting mine reasonably flat. Practically did for the diamond stone I used. If it wasn't for that, I'd have a lot more time for them. As it is, they're best avoid for sanity's sake, IMO. The DMTs I like a lot; dunno why so many people say they're no good. Up until the onslaught of A2 steel chez Alf, I was happily plugging away with a DMT duo coarse/fine and an unidentified natural oilstone and having a ball. All it needs is a few HCS blades of the Upward Facing Bevel Fraternity and I'll run to go back to that system with a song in my heart.

Meanwhile I play with diamond paste and remain in seven or eight minds about it. :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

P.S. Mike - No! Don't say it! =; :lol:

 

[Frank D.]

I have Lee Valley scrapers. While they are good, I wouldn't suggest paying extra for them. Bahco are my favorite.

 

[Frank D.]

Wizer, I don't know how much the carving attachment costs. Compare it to a slipstone. For equal price I'd go for the slipstone. You need an experienced hand to use the Dremel correctly. The felt wheel always has to rotate away from the cutting edge (or else say goodbye to the wheel...) and the Dremel has to turn at a relatively slow speed yet fast enough to put a polish on the metal. The main problem is that a little slip or shake of the hand and you put a gouge in the edge (especially the corners, which you do NOT want to round off)...so you have to start sharpening all over again. I have gotten good reasults with my dremel and still use it, but some gouges are tough to hone. I also just got my hands on a really nice translucent Arkansas slip stone, which is like the Rolls Royce of slips. A slipstone is much easier to control.

 

[Chris Knight]

Tom,
Re carving chisels - I recommend Pfeil chisels amongst the modern ones, they are generally nice thin, excellent quality steel - which is what you want in a carving chisel, they come pre-sharpened and usually well shaped. Tilgear stock them at very reasonable prices.

Don't buy a "set" - get what you need, when you need them is the basic rule. If you actually wish to carve more than a minor bit of decoration or such like, then a few experts have recommended sets but as these comprise different chisels from the ones usually included in commercial sets, the advice to steer clear still stands.

For sharpening carving chisels, I use Arkansas stones - second choice is diamond stones. Waterstones are a bad idea for carving chisels in my book as the high localised pressure soon deforms the stones surface and then they need flattening again, although the flatness of a stone is rather less important in sharpening carving chisels than plane irons or ordinary woodworking chisels

 

[wizer]

thanks chris. Do tilgear have a website? I googled it but drew a blank.

 

[Chris Knight]

Do tilgear have a website?

No, afraid not. It is a source of frustration to many of us because they have a great range of products we like. Their phone number is 01707 873434 and I have always had excellent service from them. Just have to telephone rather than type..

They do have a pretty good catalogue, ask them to send you one.

 

[edmund]

I use Ashley Isles and Pfeil carving gouges. Both are excelent and not really crazy money for the quality. I see that axminster have stooped stocking Ashley Isles so I'm hoping someone can come up with a supplier...

You could have a browse here
http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Woodcarving_Section_2.html
Lot's of nice tools to whet the appetite!

I think Ray Iles also stocks Ashley Iles tools as well. http://www.oldtools.free-online.co.uk/index.htm. He probably has second hand ones as well.

E

 

[Scott]

You could have a browse here
http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Woodcarving_Section_2.html
Lot's of nice tools to whet the appetite!

Don't know that Mike Hancock carries a lot of stock though. You might have a wait for them. I got some Aurious from him that took a wee while to come (not a problem if you're not in a hurry, which I wasn't).

I'd second Chris and Les' recommendation for Pfeil carving gouges. I have some older AI tools too that are good. Definitely buy what you need and not sets.

I use Arkansas and Washita stones for sharpening them (and occasionally a couple of ceramic stones that are supposed to be for the Global kitchen knives!)

 

[wizer]

ceramic stones that are supposed to be for the Global kitchen knives!)

Well I have a full set of Global Knives and Stones, not sure if I could bare to put a chisel anywhere near my Cooking Knives tho. (Cooking is my first love)

 

[MikeW]

P.S. Mike - No! Don't say it!

Me? Never [-( :^o

Ok, I cannot resist...

For me, I use a Tormek for shaping carving tools--just finished reshaping 3 dozen eBay purchases for a sharpening client. Not gonna do that by hand. Now I need to make him new handles. But I digress.

For my own carving tools, which are Pfeil and a few assorted Addis, Buck and Marples, I hone them during use with--what else--Shapton slips (sorry Alf <g>). I also have a few Arkansas slips I use and a few no longer used waterstone slips. The waterstone slips I have found to be not cost effective due to quick wear, as has been mentioned.

I have made a board to which I have attached various-sized dowel cross sections covered in thin leather and on which I use the green honing compound to strop after honing with the stones. Quick and puts a great polish on the tools.

Mike

 

[Matt1245]

There's your answer, Miles. More often than not they're not flat; I nearly went insane getting mine reasonably flat.

Oh damn, i just ordered a ultra fine ceramic stone for myself today.

One of the woodworking mags (can't remember which now) ran a series of articles on sharpening and said that the medium and fine ceramic stones were not flat, but the ultra fine 10,000g one was. Is this true or did the writer just get lucky bt recieving a flat ultra fine?

Matt.

 

[wizer]

so would i only need slipstones? If so, which ones in the arkansas range?