Chisel advice

[morrisminordriver]

Santa has agreed to get me some new chisels as the old ones dont hold an edge for long enough.

Can anyone tell me what's the difference between the Kirschen (Two Cherries) 1002 and 1101 chisels?

The choice will be down to Kirschen or Ray Iles bevel edge with boxwood handles. Anone got any views on which they'd go for and why...?

Thanks MMD.

 

[Alf]

MMD,

I believe the only difference between the two Kirchens are the handles. The 1002 have octagonal handles, and the 1101 round. I have a feeling the 1101 set is on offer at the mo' isn't it? Pretty good deal, even if they're not.

Between the Kirschen and the Ray Iles, I think I'd go for the latter. The Kirschen are a good buy, and the important bit -the blade- seems to be fine and dandy according to all reports, but I just can't stand those tacky looking metal hoops. First thing I'd be doing is replacing the handles! Anyway, buying from Mr Iles would be supporting a surviving fraction of a great tool-making tradition, so you'd get a warm fuzzy glow too. :lol: Having said all that, when the L-N chisels hit these shores I'm going to be sorely tempted to forego the patriotic feelings... Bottom line; you'd probably be more than happy with either.

Cheers, Alf

 

[sawdustalley]

Can you buy Ray Iles in Axminster? Don't recall seeing them, if not where can you get them??

I'm considering Kirschen - One of the items on my extensive axminster wish list this christmas! If not, I will buy some at the start of 2004!

Maybe I should consider Ray Iles - Alf you need to tell us more!

 

[Alf]

Ray Iles hides out with his chisles at The Old Tool Store. For the edification and Slope greasing of all, allow me to point you in the direction of this page where a link to his site, and that of other tool dealers, may be found. You'll need to click on the catalogue link in order to find the chisels (£99 for 8 ). I'm not absolutely sure of the dynamic between Ray and the firm of Ashley Iles, but I've always assumed he must get his blades made by them (being family and all). In which case there may be a delay, as AI are swamped with trying to catch up on orders for their new, and very popular in the Land of the Free, American Pattern butt chisels. Just FWIW, and in no way certain information.

In F&C, the Ray Iles got "Editor's Choice", while the Kirschen just nicked the result by being considered better value for money. Depends really; d'you want handles like you get on the Chiwaniese chisels at car boots? Or fine London Pattern Boxwood ones? Remember; a chisel's for life, not just for Christmas :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[sawdustalley]

Value for money,

When I was at Tools 2003 - Record were selling some of for a fiver (End of line stuff) The handles are nasty red plastic.

Did a bit of sharpening on them the other day - I was dead impressed, managed to nick my finger twice when using them the other day though (Blood was drawn ) I didnt even feel it, which means they are sharp. That was my bargain at tools2003

PS - Thanks for the links, I will have a look

 

[Midnight]

Speaking of chisels...
After reading Kirby's dovetail book, I've started tooling up to try them. He mentions skew chisels to get into the back corners of the sockets. Are these available "off the shelf" or are they home made, and if so, is there a prefered size / style for them?

 

[Alf]

I think Crown are the only makers of off-the-shelf skew chisels, and as Crown chisels are a load of- I mean "not good" :wink: you'd be better off grinding your own. I think probably the preferred style and size would be whatever works. No golden rule I don't think. Crown offer their's in 1/2" and 3/4" pairs, but no angle specified; never measured my home ground versions, just eyeballed them. I seem to recall reading that someone suggested using a fish tail carving chisel instead, which would give you both left and right skew in one tool, but I've not tried it.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Midnight]

I've just been having a looksee at the crown skewed chisels... looks like they're skewed at 45 degrees... bit too agressive for what I had in mind...

Alf... you don't rate Crown's..??
How come....???

<trying to find a half decent set of paring chisels...

 

[morrisminordriver]

Thanks for the replies - Ive decided on the Ray Iles chisels and will be placing an order shortly (would have placed it immediately but the VW just cost £420 to get through the MOT!!).

MMD

 

[Scrit]

Kirby.... ...mentions skew chisels to get into the back corners of the sockets. Are these available "off the shelf" or are they home made, and if so, is there a prefered size / style for them?

As Alf surmised the only readily available ones are from Crown. Don't know about their quality, but I have a set of their butt chisels which are pretty good (i.e. hold an edge) - however they did need a LOT of work to lap the backs flat :twisted: (shades of Henry Taylor, eh Alf?)

I'd do what Alf suggests and grind a couple of chisels to suit - if you start out with a pair of identical (?) flea market specials (say 3/8 or 1/2in depending on the size of work you think you'll do) you should be able to regrind and experiment until you get the angle you're happy with (tip: a bench grinder and a pot of water make this task a lot faster, just keep dipping in the tools so you don't burn them!). 45 degrees sounds way too high, mine are around 18 to 20 degrees which seems to work for me.

Scrit

 

[Gill]

Henry Taylor Tools Ltd has a range of skew chisels. Never used them myself.

http://www.henrytaylortools.co.uk/chisels.html

Yours

Gill

 

[woodshavings]

I have a few Crown turning chisels - they seem to keep their edge OK - I would guess the steel is the same as used in the Crown standard chisels.
- John

 

[Alf]

Alf... you don't rate Crown's..??
How come....???

I'm a republican? :wink:

The steel in Crown's tools seems to be worryingly variable; they seem to consider their pretty looks to be rather more important than the cutting edge. Depends what your criteria are for chisel buying really. There was a longish thread on the UK DIY newsgroup about 6 months ago which has some opinions about the various brands available. I think there was a similar one in The Other Place not long after, if you can find it.

Gill, the Henry Taylor's are turning chisels, rather than bench chisels. They have a knife type bevel, rather than a single one and flat back. As usual, chisel names conspire to confuse us all. :evil:

Just one point to add to the grind-your-own advice, and probably very obvious but you never know. Don't try and grind the skew with the chisel at your preferred bevel grinding angle. Grind it straight across to the required skew angle, and then make the bevel as a separate step. Otherwise it's losing temper time; for both you and the chisel... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

P.S. I'm not a republican, btw. Long live Her Majg, say I. <Exit singing Rule Britannia> :wink:

 

[Gill]

Gill, the Henry Taylor's are turning chisels, rather than bench chisels.

Thanks Alf. I'll be on the lookout for Santa bearing gifts that are really more suitable for HWMBO's lathe :shock: !

Yours

Gill (as devout a Roundhead as ever there was one)

 

[Scrit]

Gill

From my own experience Taylor HSS turning tools are slightly better than Sorby (in any case I prefer their handle shape) which in turn are better than Crown - this is based on how long they'll hold an edge after sharpening. Don't know about Hamlet, but they certainly seem to have their adherants.

Alf has commented in the past about Henry Taylor cranked chisels being a pain ('cos they ain't straight), and I'd agree with that.

Scrit

 

[sawdustalley]

There is a wrapped box under the tree i've seen that *could" be the kircsschenn ?? chisel set

I daren't lift it up, dont want to spoil the surprise :shock:

 

[Alf]

Alf has commented in the past about Henry Taylor cranked chisels being a pain ('cos they ain't straight), and I'd agree with that.

Just to clarify, both Scrit and I know cranked chisels aren't supposed to be straight... They're just not straight in the right place and not straight in the wrong place too. :lol:

James, that's sounds mighty promising. Not sure I'd be able to resist having a quick prod and shake; which accounts for why the base of the tree is bare until the day.

Cheers, Alf

Up to my elbows in wrapping paper this morning, and scheduled to be up to my ears in it by close of play today. :? Can you get over-sensitised to sticky tape by too much exposure I wonder...?