Chest of Drawers

[OPJ]

Hi guys,

Following the success of the stained-pine Blanket Chest, I've now been asked to look at building a chest of drawers in the same timber and style. Drawer fronts must be inset, not onset, while overlapping the rails but finishing flush (1mm back) with the stiles. It must also be to the same dimensions and same finish. Back panel, at this stage, is a sheet (or two) of 6mm MDF.

Initially, they were looking for a two-by-three, six-drawer configuration but, after my initial SketchUp scrawlings, we agreed on an eight-drawer design as below:

I'm happy with the base, plinth and I'll deal with the drawers later (probably hand-cut dovetails). I'm still scratching my head over some of the constructional details of the main carcase.

I'm hoping to use wooden runners, kickers and drawer rails. As shown, this is a frame and panel construction at both ends, with a central divider (veneered MDF at this point). I can't see how this will work without beefing up the thickness of the stiles (as I've done in the drawing, 38mm thick instead of 19mm). There would be enough material, particularly in the centre, for me to twin-tenon the drawer rails in place.

My biggest concern here is that in beefing up the sections of timber, this is obviously going to cost more money. :roll: As before, we're trying keep the budget fairly low...

So, what would I like to know?

- Frame and panel construction at both ends could create difficulty in fixing the runners. My other thought is to keep the front stiles at 38mm with the rest of the frames at 19mm. Then, I could attach a sheet of 19mm MDF to the inside, which should give me somewhere to fix the runners - what do you think? Can you think of another solution?

- Central dividers are also drawn at 38mm. I was planning to double-up two sheets of 19mm MDF here, to save buying a full sheet of 38mm! I could widen the front lipping to take twin-mortises for the drawer rails. Any other opinions here?

- What do you think about the sizing of the drawer fronts? They're drawn, here, at 172.8mm wide; all equal. I have 691mm between the base and top and have tried working to the Golden Ratio but, I thought the upper drawers looked too narrow... Any other ideas? I don't think I want to fronts to be any wider than they are now. :?

 

[Steve Maskery]

The drawers would look infinitly better if they were graduated in size. There are a number of ways you can do this. The easy one is to have each drawer a fixed difference (eg 25mm) from its neighbour (an arithmetic progression). But my favourite is to use the Hambridge Rectangle method. It can be used as-is, or used to get the heights and then alter the overall width to fit Golden, for example.

If you go to the Design.Click.Buld pages at Taunton, DaveR has a tutorial on it. Modesty prevents me from naming the consultant on the piece.

S

 

[mailee]

As for the runners on the end panels, I would glue the front ends into the stiles and screw the rear end through slots into the rear stiles allowing for movement. Failing that then maybe a loose tennon into the rear stiles to allow for any movement. HTH. :wink:

 

[SketchUp Guru]

If you go to the Design.Click.Buld pages at Taunton, DaveR has a tutorial on it. Modesty prevents me from naming the consultant on the piece.

S

What? This old thing? My consultant on that is rather shy.

 

[MikeG.]

Olly,

I'm rather glad you posted this before you started making it, because I think there are a number of small things that could make a very big difference.

I completely concur on the graduated drawer-size .......and would add that it really helps the look if the bottom drawer is one full width drawer (ie double the size of the ones above) and/or the top drawers are thirds rather than halves.

As this is pine, you aren't going to achieve a sleek modern look...........it just isn't that sort of timber........so why hide the rails? I would certainly be showing them between all the drawers. The plinth is a traditional look, as its the top.......so why the incongrous drawer-front design?

'twere it me, I would use 38 square corner pieces for the side panels, and house my runners into those. You can then fasten the front end of the runners in, and leave the back ends dry in their joint to allow for any movement.

Finally, the central MDF panel is no more than a nuisance. You don't need it structurally (nor do you need a back panel nor a base, so long as you use diagonal corner bracing). By getting rid of the central panel your drawer runners can just be a single piece of timber (not 2) housed into the back of the central stile.

I know you won't see this as criticism!

Another project for the same client?

Regards

Mike

 

[OPJ]

Thanks for your replies.

Thanks, Steve and Dave, I really like the Hambridge Rectangle method. I've just re-drawn the fronts and this is how it now looks.

I do believe that this is an improvement and also easier to calculate and draw out than the Golden Ratio! Not sure about that bottom drawer; a piece of softwood roughly 9" wide isn't going to be very stable... I might see if I can reduce that one slightly to widen the others a little. Arithmetic Progression looks like the next avenue I'll have to explore. :wink:

Mike, yes, this is for the same 'client'. While I do appreciate your views and opinions, a lot of what you've said can be answered by the fact that this is pretty much what the client wants. :roll:

Do you think you could elaborate a bit more on your latest paragraph (ie. the central divider/stile)? I'm not quite sure of what you mean but, it sounds like it could save some work, weight and money...

 

[MikeG.]

Sure Olly,

at the moment you have a central stile with an MDF board let into the middle of it. Either side of this board is a drawer runner........ie 2 bits of parallel wood, separated only by the MDF.

Remove the MDF and you can make that a single pice of wood, wider, which would span from the rear of the central stile to another stile at the back of the chest.

You can eliminate the back and the base MDF too. You can only ever see the base with drawers removed, and the back if the furniture is ever moved away from the walls. Little diagoanl corner braces (like you see under chair seats), resolve any racking issues.

Clients? Don't be dictated to by them!!!!! Tell them they are wrong and show them a better way!!

Mike

PS The Hambridge thing has improved your drawers, but just popped your base drawer over a standard board width.........you might want to start again and have the bottom drawer 220 deep.

 

[OPJ]

Thanks, Mike, that was pretty much what I thought meant anyway. :wink: Just drawn it out in SketchUp and it does appear to work well. I was going to stub-tenon the original runners in to the front rail; I reckon I can do the same here again, leaving the stile alone as this will need mortises for the rails.

What about fixing the wide runners (measuring 102mm - 32mm either side of of 38mm stile) at the back? Notch it around the stile and screw from the sides? Don't mention dowels!! :twisted: I could even notch out some of the stiles but, that sounds like more work and could make final assembly a little complicated... :-k

 

[MikeG.]

What about fixing the wide runners (measuring 102mm - 32mm either side of of 38mm stile) at the back? Notch it around the stile and screw from the sides? Don't mention dowels!! :twisted: I could even notch out some of the stiles but, that sounds like more work and could make final assembly a little complicated... :-k

Why so wide Olly?

I would make it ex 75, and if your central stile was ex 38 that should still leave about 18mm each side for the drawer to run on........and that is wider than the drawer side, surely?

This may be sacrilage, but I often run the drawers on runners with rebates into the drawer sides........the runner would then be nowhere near the rails between the drawers.

Mike

 

[OPJ]

I like the proportion of a 38mm stile, so it is in keeping with the thickness of the outer legs. Good point on the width of the runners; I was only working on 32mm because that's what we've been doing at college recently. I am concerned about possible wear over time with softwood drawer sides and runners... To play it safe, I'll probably go with ex.100mm stock - which is still going to leave about 28mm for the runners anyway (25mm should be plenty for 12mm sides).

What do people think about drawer bottoms - would 6mm veneered MDF be enough? Could I get away with 4mm? I will add a central muntin for extra support anyway.

 

[JonnyD]

For drawer bottoms I usually use 6mm veneered one sided ply as it is cheaper than veneered MDF and just as strong. If you want to add a central muntin you could make this out of hardwood and have a hardwood central runner rather than the 2 side runners you have at the moment. This method gives good alignment of the drawers and eliminates the drawer racking as it is opened and closed. It would also eliminate the problem of fixing the runners to the frame and panel ends.

Jon

 

[Joints]

I would say 6mm not 4.

Even with a muntin, draws that size which are likely to get crammed full of towels, bedding or whatever it will be would be likely to bend if not break if was only 4mm.

I am liking the look of this so far Olly but come on mate, Im dieing for this workbench build!


george

 

[OPJ]

Thanks, Mr.Utah , that's clearly something I hadn't considered (don't think I've ever come across a central runner either). This could save some wear on the drawer sides and I imagine it will be relying on the front rails a lot more for support.

What would you do at the back of the carcase, in this situation? Have a rear drawer rail and tenon the central runner in to that? That should also eradicate any need for a back or bracing, I think. I'd guess it wants to be slightly wider than the muntin.

I'll go with a 6mm base as well, thanks, and will check with Avon Ply regarding the availability of veneered ply.

George, as I said in the PM, check my Blog. :wink:

 

[JonnyD]

Hi Olly

I would put a drawer rail front and back which is tennoned into the corner posts Between this will be 2 front to back rails which will take the runner. The runner could be housed in or just screwed on. The central post can either be screwed to the drawer rails or preferably the drawer rails housed into the central post. There is no need doing it this way for a divider between the carcases but you could put another vertical central post fixed to the back drawer rails for extra strength.

With my limited sketchup skills I produced this which may give you an idea

you shouldnt need any extra bracing at the back. I would screw on a 6mm ply/mdf back

Cheers

Utah

 

[woodbloke]

I am concerned about possible wear over time with softwood drawer sides and runners...
What do people think about drawer bottoms - would 6mm veneered MDF be enough? Could I get away with 4mm? I will add a central muntin for extra support anyway.

Olly - drawer runners, kickers and sides ought to be in something hard, oak is usually considered to be best. If the brief is to stick to pine, I'd glue on a 6mm strip to the bottom and top of the drawer sides to act as a 'wear strip' but I'd make runners and kickers from oak as well. Drawer bases would be good from mdf and if you included a cental muntin you could even get away with 3mm hardboard...I did this on a chest of drawers a couple of years ago and it's been fine - Rob

 

[OPJ]

Thanks Rob and Jonny.

Rob, I knew someone would eventually come along and say that! :roll: I like the thought of gluing on thin strips to keep costs down - I've got loads of beech waste at the moment, surely that would do? :wink:

Dave R has also very kindly sent me some excellent information and drawings on NK-style drawers. I'm torn between that and Jonny's central-runner idea at the moment... :-k

 

[woodbloke]

Rob, I knew someone would eventually come along and say that! :roll: I like the thought of gluing on thin strips to keep costs down - I've got loads of beech waste at the moment, surely that would do? :wink:

Olly - beech would be fine I reckon...anything's got to be harder than a pine/pine wear surface - Rob

 

[OPJ]

Thanks, Rob. Being a bit lighter in colour than oak, it should (hopefully!) blend in with the pine a bit more after the staining! (Not that the runners and rails are there to be admired, of course!) :wink:

 

[Mattty]

Ollie,

I would consider using drawer slips instead of grooving the front and sides. The advantage is 2 fold. Firstly it will increase the surface area of the drawer side where it is in contact with the runner thus reducing wear, secondly generic 'pine' as your aware is prone to movement and a deep drawer bottom groove would only encourage this.

For the drawer bottom i personally would use solid timber for this project- either T&G pine or preferably some Cedar of lebanon.

Good Luck and i hope this helps.

 

[BradNaylor]

Olly,

I would definitely use T&G matching for the drawer bases and cabinet back rather than MDF - it will look far better and more in keeping with the rustic nature of the piece.

I agree with Mike about hiding the drawer rails - I would leave then visible dividing the drawers.

The drawer runners I would simply screw or glue and pin in place to the stiles. There is simply no need for complex joints and they wil never be seen.

I see no problem with pine on pine drawer runners. Applying oak slips is overkill IMO.

The sad truth is that a pine chest of drawers will more than likely be in a skip long before the drawers show any sign of wear!

:lol:

Cheers
Brad