Cheap scroll saws

[GrahamRounce]

Hi - I'm looking for a scroll saw basically for a single project, and I'm looking at the very cheapest, namely the Titan SF16G (ScrewFix http://www.screwfix.com/prods/20397/Pow ... croll-Saw#) and the Clarke CSS400B (Machine Mart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... -saw/path/)

Though it's for one job, I don't want to have to throw it away and get another, dearer, one because this one just can't do a good job. What inadequacies am I likely to find. Will they actually cut well? Does anyone have any experience with these brands, or even these products in particular?

Thanks very much for any advice,
Graham Rounce

 

[Gill]

What's the nature of the job you have in mind, Graham? If it's just a one-off, it might be better for you to use a jigsaw or a band saw.

Generally speaking, you get what you pay for.

Gill

 

[GrahamRounce]

Hi - It's for cutting fairly fine shapes (1/8" to 1/4" wide) in 1/2" oak! I'm wondering what will I not get if I don't pay for it!? I don't mind if for instance the piece has to be guided a little more slowly or carefully, but of course I don't want the cut to be uncontrollable. Also, I definitely would like the cut on the underside to be exactly below that on the top!
What sort of performance might the cheap ones be lacking?
Thanks!

 

[Gill]

Either of those saws should be able to do the job. I've never used one myself but 1/2" oak should be within the capabilities of any scroll saw.

The more expensive scroll saws are usually heavier than the cheaper ones and this minimises vibration. They also tend to have more advanced blade changing mechanisms so it's quicker and easier to change blades. The build quality of expensive machines is just better and they tend to last longer. However, durability isn't a factor judging from what you're saying .

Whichever machine you go for, I suggest you throw away whatever blades are supplied with it and buy a decent brand. It's a bit like buying a bandsaw - never use the blade supplied with the saw.

Gill

 

[GrahamRounce]

Ok, that's great. Thank-you very much!

 

[GrahamRounce]

Ok, I went for the Titan and, speaking as someone who knows nothing about it, it seems v reasonable value for money. It does vibrate a little, but not as much as I thought the instructions implied when they said it had to be bolted down (I didn't - it comes with alternative rubber feet), and it's not too noisy either, but then I've no experience of any others. I've used it for, oh, five minutes now, and it hasn't broken down yet!
The plate comes oiled, I suppose to stop it rusting in transit, and I'm wondering what to do to (a) keep it non-rusty, but (b) to avoid the workpiece getting oily. Use a piece of paper under it? Give the plate a thorough clean and then varnish it?? The instructions say use a thin smear of "wax paste", but I don't know how well that'll mix with the oil, or if it'll solve the mess-on-the-workpiece prob.
Anyway.

 

[Gill]

Hi Graham

It would be wise to clean the gunk off the table with some paraffin. Goodness knows why it was smeared with oil - aluminium isn't going to rust :roll: . A little paste wax applied after cleaning the table will help your workpiece to move more freely, but it isn't really necessary. I've got a saw with an aluminium table which has never been waxed and it's never occurred to me to do so. I would only wax an iron table.

If it was my saw, I'd lose the rubber feet. We discussed anti-vibration precautions in this thread recently.

I'd love to see what you make with your new saw, so don't be shy .

Gill

 

[GrahamRounce]

Good point! I'd forgotten the advert said aluminium. A bit of trade descriptions there - I've just tested it with a magnet and it's definitely iron. Good for the vibration, but hate the rust. I had a Homebase drill stand the base plate of which got pretty rusty. Does wax stop rust but not come off too much on the work? Would varnish work?
Thanks yet again,

 

[Gill]

Would varnish adhere to the iron table? Would the timber move freely or catch on the varnish? I don't know. It's not a course of action I've ever heard propounded before - most scrollers just apply paste wax. I've never heard anyone moan about wax contaminating their wood but that may be because scroll saw projects are normally cut with the finished surface facing up. If you don't like the idea of using paste wax, an alternative would be to fasten a piece of perspex onto the table, although this would reduce the depth of stroke.

Anyway, why are you worried about the table getting rusty? I thought you just wanted the saw for one job ?

Gill

 

[Grinding One]

Good thin coat of paste wax does the trip.There is a spay called Top Coat also available for saws and other table top machines..

 

[GrahamRounce]

Thanks.
Just one job, yes <grin> but you never know...
I think I'm going to evo-stik a sheet of thin ali onto it. Stop me if there's some reason why that's a terrible idea! (Luckily I have a scroll saw to cut it out with!)

 

[Gill]

I presume you're going to clean the table first!

Don't use too much glue, especially if the aluminium is thin, because it will distort the flatness and/or angle of the cutting surface. The table has to be dead flat and square to the blade for the saw to work accurately. If the Evo-stik comes out of an aerosol rather than a tube, you'll minimise the risk of creating an uneven surface.

If I had a table that I wasn't happy with, I'd actually bolt a piece of plywood (or perspex) on top rather than glue anything to the table. At least the false table can be removed later. Surprisingly, plywood is a very good surface for a scroll saw table. Diamond saws always came with them as standard. I spoke to the late Doug Woodward about it once and he suggested dusting the plywood with a little French chalk (the stuff you get in tyre puncture repair kits) to make the surface really slippery.

Gill

 

[GrahamRounce]

Ok, yes, that sounds a little more undoable if necessary. Plywood it is!

 

[maltrout512]

As mentioned clean off table, I use meths only because I have it handy in the workshop. I the use mr sheen spray, on and wipe off. Just like when you are using at home on the tv or heaven forbid antique furniture. Ika is safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Don't push the wood as hard as normal, it does glide, use every other week and you sound have no problems.

 

[Gill]

Doesn't Mr Sheen have silicons in it which can adversely affect finish?

Gill

 

[GrahamRounce]

Just to say thanks for all the advice. It's going a little slower than I thought (what else is new?) but I'll put a pic up if it turns out to be anything at all!
Ty again

 

[GrahamRounce]

Hi - As promised... here's this project so far: http://www.grahamrounce.co.uk/stuff/WoodenChain02.jpg (The next thing will be better, I swear! (Hope, anyway))
I've been getting a lot of help from the General Woodworking forum too (hello again, if you're the same people!). I'm thinking that for this kind of thing a helical blade would have been better - more easily steerable.
There's plenty to do yet: I want a carving of some kind on the end of it, but anyway.
PS If there's a chain-making tool that does the whole thing, I don't want to know!

 

[Grinding One]

Hi - As promised... here's this project so far: http://www.grahamrounce.co.uk/stuff/WoodenChain02.jpg (The next thing will be better, I swear! (Hope, anyway))
I've been getting a lot of help from the General Woodworking forum too (hello again, if you're the same people!). I'm thinking that for this kind of thing a helical blade would have been better - more easily steerable.
There's plenty to do yet: I want a carving of some kind on the end of it, but anyway.
PS If there's a chain-making tool that does the whole thing, I don't want to know!

Oh its Chain making you want to do...all you need is a table saw and drill with a bit and a wood carving knife to finish it off.Take a board as long as you want the chain ,cut the thing one third the distance in ,flip it over and cut the other third then do the other side ...it should now look like a plus sign from the end.Drill out the centers of links and carve out to round then smooth out the corners with sandpaper.Your done.

 

[Grinding One]

Just thought to myself you made that on a scroll saw :shock: wow what a man.An if you want a hook on the end the scoll saw or band saw would work well for that...to put it on the end ,make one link by itself cut one end of it open soak in water pry it gently open around the link it goes on when dry glue ends back together.
Cheers Larry

 

[GrahamRounce]

Yes, thanks, I did more or less that, but not so easily! I used a router to cut the four "shoulders" off of the 3x3 cm wood. Not ideal, but I've no table saw (not much of a table, either, actually!)
The scroll saw was used to cut each of the 4 "flanges" into a series of wavy semicircles, and to try to neatly cut as much as possible out of the middles. I separated the rings by poking a fine drill in between, to weaken the connection as much as possible before twisting & breaking.
The original idea was to use a piece of 18x18mm bog oak, with which I managed to get as far as the X shape by using a pointed (45 deg) router bit to cut a triangular channel down each side, which worked very nicely! This made the cross a little bigger than just cutting off the corners, and was easy too. But I'd had enough trouble with the larger one to seriously doubt my abililty to work any further at 1/2 that size...