Celtic knots howto ?

[loz]

Nice post NikNak !

Look well for first attempts, Still havent got around to it yet - with needing competion pices and the restart of nightschool, i have a todo list to beat the band.

Band

Ah yes - Thats my main concern - the kerf thickness of a bandsaw cut. I'm gonna need some very thin veneer.................

Frugal - Even if not tru e- dont they look fab !!!!

 

[NikNak]

.

Loz


you're worrying about the kerf (blade) thickness unnecessarily...

think outside of the box for a mo....

what's to stop you cutting a slot the same size as your inlay choice..? i.e. i used a piece of 1/4 inch ply and chose to cut it down.... why not leave it at 1/4 inch (6mm ish) and cut the slot to suit..?

that way you already know the thickness of your inlay wood... you just need to 'ease' the slot till its just big enough..?

like i said in my post above..... it was my first attempt... (and i think i got lucky to be fair). I didn't worry (too much) about having perfectly square wood to start with, or the inlay fitting exactly right (in-fact a couple were a bit of a dogs dinner fit wise, and i just hoped the glue did the rest...).

again if you're still worried about blades thickness...... then just cut the wood right through at whatever angle you choose, glue in your inlay choice, clean up, turn and cut the next face..... making sure you get lengths right(ish)..... even if the lengths are out by a little bit.... it doesn't matter.... you'll need the eye of a hawk to notice that the nice little do-dah sitting on your mantle piece is a bit wrong......


just get in there and give it a go.....





Nick



Oh..... Frugal(?), yes from what i can make out the bands are true i.e. the crossing over etc. but can be altered by which face you decide to cut/laminate next.....

 

[frugal]

.Oh..... Frugal(?), yes from what i can make out the bands are true i.e. the crossing over etc. but can be altered by which face you decide to cut/laminate next.....

NikNak,

Looking at your photo:

For the piece on the left: the line from top left to bottom right goes Under, Under, Over; the line from top right to bottom left goes Under Over, Over; the top curve is Over, Over; and the bottom curve is Under, Under.

It looks great, but true celtic knot work has to go Over-Under-Over-Under. I am wondering if it is even possible to create true knotwork with this technique. I think you would have to do each slice in segments, and the arrangements would get more and more complex the more intersections you put in.

 

[Jonzjob]

It wouldn't be possible to creat a knot with rope in the same way that the 'knot' is done in wood. It wouldn't be stable. As you say, they must go over-under to make it stable, even if the over under is across 2 or more strands at a time. As in this 'monkeys fist' I made a while back. Even with this I was corrected in that it should have 3 not 4 strands. Picky or wot :shock:

It was made over a wooden ball that I turned for the project.

 

[loz]

It wouldn't be possible to creat a knot with rope in the same way that the 'knot' is done in wood. It wouldn't be stable. As you say, they must go over-under to make it stable, even if the over under is across 2 or more strands at a time. As in this 'monkeys fist' I made a while back. Even with this I was corrected in that it should have 3 not 4 strands. Picky or wot :shock:



It was made over a wooden ball that I turned for the project.

Shouldnt be stuffed either ! '

 

[Jonzjob]

Yes it can be, they were made for a heaving line and the addition of a center gave it a bit more weight, but not anything very heavy, hence the wooden ball.

BUT avoid the temptation to weight the core with a hard, heavy object. This can convert a useful knot into a potentially lethal missile. Any self-respecting wharfie will take out his knife and cut off any such knot.

 

[Happy amateur]

If doing the cuts on a bandsaw at 45 degrees and using a stop for the positioning, do the first cut. insert a shim between the stop and blank to give the right spacing for the insert. The shim thickness must take into account the blade thickness and should not be the same thickness as the insert. Hope that makes sense.
If the blank is not cut right through as in the youtube video then when the insert is glued, trim the insert and clamp the blank to a bench using greese proof paper and it will keep the blank straight as the glue dries.

Fred

 

[Bodrighy]

It wouldn't be possible to creat a knot with rope in the same way that the 'knot' is done in wood. It wouldn't be stable. As you say, they must go over-under to make it stable, even if the over under is across 2 or more strands at a time. As in this 'monkeys fist' I made a while back. Even with this I was corrected in that it should have 3 not 4 strands. Picky or wot :shock:

It was made over a wooden ball that I turned for the project.

To be really picky, that monkys fist has 5 strands not 4 and it doesn't matter how many strands it has to be a monkeys fist. That just happens to be a 5 stranded fist. I have been doing fancy knotwork since 1967 when I first went to sea and the bull you read is not from the knot workers but from macrame people. All the fancy knots had a practical purpose the fist was for a heaving line to weight the end for throwing(ours had to have nuts and bolts in and were soaked in oil). If you were using thinner line you often did extra strands to acomodate the weight inside.

Frugals comments on the celtic knot are also not correct as there are celtic knots that do have double overs and unders. The significance is in the fact a true celtic knot should have no visible end or beginning and in part symbolises eterity in one form or another and were a major part of druidic culture where they originated before being adopted into the celtic christian art and culture.

Pete

 

[NikNak]

Just sat here having a really close look at the way the knot crosses over & under etc...

and have noticed that one band goes

under - under - under- under - under - under

another goes

over - over - over - over - over - over

and the other two

under - under - over - under - under - over

over - over - under - over - over - under


so the first (all unders) i reckon is the first cut
the next (all overs) is the last cut
and the next two are the other cuts..... (durrr)


so who's right and who's wrong i dont know..... but i'm just off down the shed to finish it off (did a lot yesterday) and will post back later with a pic of the finished item......




Nick

 

[loz]

According the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship - it shouldn't be stuffed with anything.

But thats just the RN - what would they know about knots ?

 

[jpt]

According the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship - it shouldn't be stuffed with anything.

But thats just the RN - what would they know about knots ?

Not a lot :wink:

Merchant seamen know a lot more.

john

 

[NikNak]

Just nipped down the shed and finished it off....

here you go.... some pictures to see...

a look at the inside too.... the bands follow the same pattern throughout

held up to the light to see how transparent the ply is....

a few bits & bobs on the mantle.....




as a first attempt at knotting/banding i'm fairly well pleased....

just waiting for responses from 'er indoors and the ladies at work.....


just as soon as i've done the Kapur/Walnut one, i'll post a pic of that too....


hope you all like...?



Nick

 

[Bodrighy]

In fgact it is now illegal to put weights in them, health and safety, also not legal to soak as it makes it very hard but then again what is legal?

Pete

 

[loz]

Very nice - and very nice trivets also !!!!!!

 

[Bodrighy]

as a first attempt at knotting/banding i'm fairly well pleased....
Nick

And so you shsosuld be, those all look really good. I haven't tried lamination yet, too muh maths involved for me but those are very tempting to have a go at.

The spalted work looks good as well. Are the trivets done with a scroll saw? Very effective.

Pete

 

[NikNak]

The trivets were done on the bandsaw and finished off using the beltsander i got for my birthday.....

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=48


a little tricky... but worth it.... got orders for some of those, some to use as trivets and some wanted as table (place) mats(?)

The 'T' lights are sold and have an order to make another set of six. OH... and box's... cant make enough of them...



Nick

 

[Jonzjob]

Knot quite turned, but here is a celtic knot that was ispired by a programme on the haunted fish tank (TV) a short while back. There was a lovely 3 part knot on a windowsill overlooking Lockness and I decided to see how it would be to do a 5 point one. I take my hat off to the guys who do the beautifull work with fretsaws!

Mind you I suppose that I did take the bull by the horns when I decided to use 1" thick oak! And on the next one the 'over/under' will be pyrographed instead of carved!