**** Carving Gouges

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Jelly

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Does anyone have experience of these?

I have a basic set of Henry Taylor tools, which are excellent but don't quite cover my needs carving-wise... The **** tools are also made by Henry Taylor but sell for €24 a piece, rather than £35, other than the German versus English tax systems is there a major difference?
 
Me too - I guess there's a substantial part of a dodgy 70's sitcom in there somewhere!

Sorry I can't actually help though,

Cheerio,

Carl
 
Jelly":1x1w3qwu said:
The **** tools are also made by Henry Taylor but sell for €24 a piece, rather than £35,
From a quick look the price difference is a lot less than that.
No4 13mm(1/2")
Dictum £18.25
Toolnut £22.95
No10 26mm(1")
Dictum £27.53
Toolnut £27.20

Delivery;
Dictum £8.60
Toolnut £3.70

What is curious is that the Dictum site says the **** tools are made from German steel by HT, but Henry Taylor's site claims they use Sheffield steel for their tools.
 
I'd say buy one and give it a go. I'm not a huge fan of Henry Taylor carving tools - mainly because I've had issues in the past with their quality control in their heat treating (too soft). If you get a good one, they're very nice. If you get a bad one, you'll be spending a LOT of time trying to keep the edge in shape.

If the Dictum brand is HT though, it might be worthwhile to give them a try. Dictum has a good return policy, so I'd not be too worried about getting a dud.

I usually buy Pfeil personally, mainly because I always know what I'm getting, and I prefer an octagonal handle (less rolling around the bench). Two Cherries are nice to use, and Dystra as well... but when I moved to England and had to rebuy my carving tools, I mainly went with Pfeil and a couple of Stubai. The Stubai ones are quite good, but the bevels are often very wonky on them and they're not always fitted into the handle straight. they also coat their handles in a wax that feels horrible in your hands... but 5 seconds with a card scraper sorts that out. With Stubai, I buy them in person so I can make sure I get one that won't need much work. Pfeil is reliable enough that I don't think twice about ordering online.

Hmm... went off on a bit of a ramble there I think.

To sum up, I think you should give them a try. Buy one and see if you like it - it fits well in your hand, the steel is not too soft (dulling fast), nor too hard (chips, or just a pain to sharpen). I'd choose a V-tool, since they're a bit fussy to get right and you'll get a feel for the steel quite quickly when you're using it. If you don't like sharpening V-tools (you'll need to get over that!), then a midsized no. 2 might be good. Easier to sharpen if the edge chips or dulls too quickly, so you'd still get some good use out of it if you didn't end up returning it for replacement.

I will say my favourite tool is an old Henry Taylor #2. Seem to take forever to dull, and a couple of passes on a strop seems to turn it back into a razor.

Donovan.
 
Thanks Donovan,

I'll have a think, for the time being my old heirloom gouges have plugged the gap for now but a fishtail gouge would be useful, as would a tad more variety in curvature and size of bent and straight gouges.

If I'm buying new, a mix from any of: Robert Sorby, Ashley Iles, Henry Taylor, ****, Pfiel, Stubai, Two Cherries and Dystra would let me work out what suits me best.
 
Rhossydd":2zg7whq9 said:
Jelly":2zg7whq9 said:
The **** tools are also made by Henry Taylor but sell for €24 a piece, rather than £35,
From a quick look the price difference is a lot less than that.
No4 13mm(1/2")
Dictum £18.25
Toolnut £22.95
No10 26mm(1")
Dictum £27.53
Toolnut £27.20

Delivery;
Dictum £8.60
Toolnut £3.70

What is curious is that the Dictum site says the **** tools are made from German steel by HT, but Henry Taylor's site claims they use Sheffield steel for their tools.

A bit of a rummage on the Dictum site showed carving tools by Pfiel, Dictum (made by Henry Taylor from German carbon steel) and some Henry Taylor (made by HT from Sheffield steel).

Mind you, there's just a chance that whatever steel stockholder supplies it, it all comes from China, these days....
 
There's a chance that they could get good tool steel.

I had a client here who sizes tool steel for various customers. It came in what was similar to plywood sheets about an inch thick and they cut and machine it, but nothing specific other than to make sizes like you'd get at an industrial supply house. So big sheets go to little bars and flatstock, but that's about it.

They gave me a shop tour and I asked them where the steel came from (this was only a couple of years ago) and it ranged from China to Austria, and as they had said to me "it depends on whether the customer cares. Some do, and the Austrians really know their steel".

Pfeil may care, but it may be also that they've found a good source of chinese steel. I can't say there's anything wrong with woodwell's high speed steel in their planes, and a plane made of ebony with a double iron costs less than a high speed steel iron itself costs in the western world.
 
These ones from Dictum are double layer steel with short blades for close work,
not your traditional English style but with the Chinese Lie Nielsen knock offs getting better
there's clearly some things they do very well.
Cheaper than the Japanese ones but much the same design.
https://www.dictum.com/en/tools/woodwor ... =OGV6vULut
I might get a set myself.

My fav gouge is an old long Sorby in-canal type I found in a market.
Chop chop.
 
BenCviolin":20vjmqpt said:
These ones from Dictum are double layer steel with short blades for close work,
not your traditional English style but with the Chinese Lie Nielsen knock offs getting better
there's clearly some things they do very well.
Cheaper than the Japanese ones but much the same design.
https://www.dictum.com/en/tools/woodwor ... =OGV6vULut
I might get a set myself.

My fav gouge is an old long Sorby in-canal type I found in a market.
Chop chop.

Those (with the handles) are stickered with a sticker from woodwell tools (mujingfang). It is extremely unlikely that they are not good steel. Whether or not someone likes the design, proportion and grind is another thing, though.

If someone gets those, they should report back whether they seem to be carbon steel or high speed steel - something I might be able to find at woodwell's page.
 
The page doesn't specify, but I should've thought - if they were HSS, they wouldn't be laminated. So they are carbon steel and will carve a **** as well as anything, and without scratching you up with a tenacious wire edge like HSS has.

I have the high speed steel chisels that are tapered in width over their length. They are excellent for hogging the mortise out on a plane body because they do not contact the sides of the mortise except at the cutting tip, and they never get stuck in a mortise because of it.

they are just literally a piece of flat stock stuck in a handle, though, and that eventually leads to a need for repair.
 
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