Carcass Rip or Dovetail saw purchase advice.

[Jack46]

I'm going to purchase a rip saw (carcass or dovetail) but I'm unsure which to go for. I already own 2 veritas saws (crosscut carcass and crosscut tenon), which I really like, so it'll be that brand. It will be used mainly for dovetails.But I'm unsure if I will be limiting it uses (depth of cut mainly) if I go for dovetail.
I do regret buying the crosscut tenon a bit as I originally bought for crosscutting stock that was too large for the carcass, but I must have used it once or twice for that. Also my dad gave me his old elu sliding mitre saw so that handles large crosscuts and I usually use the carcass for everything else.

Sorry for the drawn out post, I'm leaning towards getting the dovetail (rip) and refiling the x cut tenon to a rip pattern for any larger rip cuts (tenons, etc). I've had quite a bit of resharpening and reshaping (and have the necessery files) so thats no problem.
thanks

 

[deema]

I may have misunderstood your dilemma. However, why not just use your existing carcass saw for dovetails? You can quickly change the teeth to rip. I’ve found that a nice sharp RIP saw works well on all but the most difficult timbers for both RIP and crosscut. I’d resharpen the Tenon to RIP as well. Just my 2p worth.

 

[Jack46]

Thanks deema. My post was a bit long winded.
Current situation:
Tenon (crosscut)
Carcass (crosscut)

futre idea:
Tenon (Rip)
carcass (crosscut)
carcass or dovetail (rip)

I never thought of changing my carcass saw to rip, that would leave me without a small crosscut handsaw but I appreciate your input that it would crosscut in a rip pattern..so I'll certainly consider that before proceeding.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

May be best to consider the type of work you plan to do, and obtain tools according to that. Small items, small drawers in cabinets, that sort of stuff - small saw, the smaller the planned work, the finer the teeth. Then, a shallow blade is no disadvantage, since the carcass saw does what's needed on thicker stock; indeed, a small saw with shallow blade is a bit stiffer and lighter than one with a deeper blade, and it's easier to work accurately with.

Many 'ideal tool lists' for general cabinet work include two, sometimes three backsaws for joinery work; a small dovetail saw, a middle-sized saw for bigger dovetails (carcass work) and general trimming at the bench, and a larger saw for the larger tenons and trimming jobs the middle saw isn't big enough for. However, those tool lists should always be read with a slightly jaundiced eye - it's better to select the tools appropriate to the planned work. Then just pile in, and only modify or supplement the kit in the light of experience.

(PS - Nobody actually takes any notice of that advice - we all buy nice toys, well, 'because'!)

 

[custard]

The practical difference between rip and crosscut is pretty small, at least in the finer saw sizes. For proof of that you need look no further than the way dovetails are cut, there's a small cross cut on the tail board to accommodate the half pin, but no-one (and I mean absolutely no-one) puts down their rip tooth dovetail saw and picks up a small cross cut saw for this job. You just use the one saw to cut the complete dovetail joint.

Once you get coarser than say 10 tpi you can start to see a bigger difference, but the majority of woodworkers using a mix of hand tools and machines will have less use for larger saws, and a cheap "hard point" saw from a DIY shed plus one or two backsaws is all they really need.

The preferred system at the Barnsley Workshops is to only have one or two backsaws, and to sharpen them to a "loose" rip pattern. What do I mean by "loose"? The reality is that unless you're a full time saw doctor you'll probably end up with a smidgeon of fleam even when rip sharpening. And that touch of fleam makes a finer toothed saw very versatile and easily able to handle both rip and cross cutting duties.

Bad Axe tools took the Barnsley style of sharpening and evolved it further with a slightly less aggressive tooth angle to produce their own "hybrid" tooth pattern. You can read about it here,

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/Filing.php

I think the huge range of backsaws in different sizes and different tooth patterns is irrelevant for most people, you can cut gold standard tenons and dovetails with the same saw, and if you can't then you need more practise rather than more tools!

 

[MikeG.]

The problem with accidental fleam when filing for a rip cut is that is likely to all go one way. Or, at least, it won't be alternating. If you're going to file for a rip, but with a little fleam, then surely it's best to do alternate teeth and then turn the saw around.

I concur with everything you say, though.......and that's from someone who did used to put down the rip-cut saw for a crosscut saw for those little cuts for the half pin!! I don't any more, and now both my back saws are sharpened to a rip. Two back saws and a hardpoint handsaw is my entire arsenal, and I can't think why I'd need anything else for straight cuts.

 

[Jacob]

If you just want to buy another saw which you don't really need, then just do it, no need to ask on here!

 

[Jack46]

The practical difference between rip and crosscut is pretty small, at least in the finer saw sizes. For proof of that you need look no further than the way dovetails are cut, there's a small cross cut on the tail board to accommodate the half pin, but no-one (and I mean absolutely no-one) puts down their rip tooth dovetail saw and picks up a small cross cut saw for this job. You just use the one saw to cut the complete dovetail joint.

Once you get coarser than say 10 tpi you can start to see a bigger difference, but the majority of woodworkers using a mix of hand tools and machines will have less use for larger saws, and a cheap "hard point" saw from a DIY shed plus one or two backsaws is all they really need.

The preferred system at the Barnsley Workshops is to only have one or two backsaws, and to sharpen them to a "loose" rip pattern. What do I mean by "loose"? The reality is that unless you're a full time saw doctor you'll probably end up with a smidgeon of fleam even when rip sharpening. And that touch of fleam makes a finer toothed saw very versatile and easily able to handle both rip and cross cutting duties.

Bad Axe tools took the Barnsley style of sharpening and evolved it further with a slightly less aggressive tooth angle to produce their own "hybrid" tooth pattern. You can read about it here,

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/Filing.php

I think the huge range of backsaws in different sizes and different tooth patterns is irrelevant for most people, you can cut gold standard tenons and dovetails with the same saw, and if you can't then you need more practise rather than more tools!

Thank you Custard, sound advice. I'll stick with the 2 veritas I've already got and file them rip when they need sharpening. I've got the chop saw and loads of hard point saws from site work for crosscutting any larger pieces.
Also thank you to everyone else...well, not quite everyone.