Can't cut, won't cut!

[ohms12]

I'll cut a long story short - I have a 1960's ish Stanley no 4 plane. I've flattened the sole, i've sharpened the edge on diamond stones followed by a strop - it cuts paper just fine! I've taken the chip breaker out and it sits flush on the blade. It's bevel down, not the widest mouth opening, but i'd like fine cuts.

My issue? I'm not getting even shavings (i've adjusted the lever until the blade sits straight), I either get cuts on one side, or both sides, or mainly the middle. It's never long and even across the blade! The cuts are short and curly. That's even if I get that far, if not, it just digs in. I honestly don't know what to do next, i'd just like it to work!

I live in Dunfermline, Fife. If there was someone local to me I could ask for advice/help I'd be more than happy to return the favour with curry! (Running a restaurant must have it's merits, right?!)

Thanks folks

 

[DannyEssex]

Im new to all this but how close is the chip breaker to blade? How much of a gap are you leaving ?

 

[ohms12]

I've experimented - maybe 2-4mm depending on what I've been fettling with.

 

[NickWelford]

Perhaps its the wood?

 

[ohms12]

Yeah maybe. I'm able to get a range of fairly hard woods local to me, but finding softer woods is a little tougher for some reason. I'm trying it on a piece of beech - it has an even grain, not much in the way of knots either. I have a piece of oak (I'm not even gonna bother on that), some sycamore (same) and a piece of lime. Might try the lime? Guess I should try to find me some pine!

 

[MickCheese]

4mm gap for the chip breaker (if I read that right) seems a long way from the edge of the blade but that shouldn't give you the reduced cut but it may make it dig in. Try a cut with the chip breaker as close as you can get it to the cutting edge.

This does suggest the blade is sharpened with a slight camber.

Are you sure the blade is at 90 degrees to the sides?

Mick

 

[bugbear]

It's never long and even across the blade!

That's only possible with a cutting edge that is straight to about the tolerance of the shaving you're taking.
So if you're taking a fine-ish shaving (say 5 thou) your cutting edge would need to be straight plus or minus 5 thou, which is not a trivial thing to achieve. Many people have curved edges, even if they don't mean to, and even if they don't know it. (*)

BugBear

(*) some people want curved edges - that's different

 

[ohms12]

Ohh. Well, i'll go back and double check my blade is to 90 degrees. Maybe it's not. Would I be looking for a straight edge on my iron or a slight bevel? Not sure what difference it makes in all honesty.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Is it possible you have dubbed over the cutting edge by over-enthusiasm with the strop ? Or used an incorrect or erratic honing angle ?

It only takes a tiny bit of rounding over at the very tip of cutting edge to leave the blade riding on a rounded bevel with the edge not biting at all. Apply some pressure so that it deforms the wood a bit, and it dives in or chatters.

If in any doubt, I would try sharpening it again with a guide at 30 degrees, until you have a burr/wire edge all way across the iron, and skip the stropping. Stropping on a soft material can easily round the edge. This is just as a check, I hasten to add, not a recommendation that you should always sharpen this way !

 

[ohms12]

I guess it's possible - i'll check when I get back home and refine the cutting edge again. I'll leave out the strop to make sure it's not that. My angle seems good, I definitely had a good and even burr along the edge before I stropped. Thanks for your advice guys, i'll let you know how I get on tonight!

 

[Jacob]

I'll cut a long story short - I have a 1960's ish Stanley no 4 plane. I've flattened the sole, i've sharpened the edge on diamond stones followed by a strop - it cuts paper just fine! I've taken the chip breaker out and it sits flush on the blade. It's bevel down, not the widest mouth opening, but i'd like fine cuts.

My issue? I'm not getting even shavings (i've adjusted the lever until the blade sits straight), I either get cuts on one side, or both sides, or mainly the middle. It's never long and even across the blade! The cuts are short and curly. That's even if I get that far, if not, it just digs in. I honestly don't know what to do next, i'd just like it to work!

I live in Dunfermline, Fife. If there was someone local to me I could ask for advice/help I'd be more than happy to return the favour with curry! (Running a restaurant must have it's merits, right?!)

Thanks folks

Sounds OK to me - you are not supposed to get "even" shavings. Unless you just plane the edge of narrow boards in which case you can get a long picturesque curl.
On a wide board - if you managed to get an "even" shaving on one pass the next one couldn't be, as each pass alters the profile of the board surface.
Try shining a bright light across your planed surface and you will see a maze of irregular shallow troughs. The best you can hope for is for these to be shallow and regular, rather like adze or gouge cuts, but barely visible to the eye.
I'd just keep at it - but keep looking at it too, so you can see what's going on. And don't forget that what you are trying to achieve is a flat surface - the shavings go in the bin and no one cares what they look like.

PS a dead straight plane edge makes life difficult - a bit of camber is more or less essential.

 

[ohms12]

Here's a few pics of what I have and what I'm getting:

 

[Jacob]

Yebbut what is the planed surface like? The shavings go in the bin - don't even look at them if they bother you!
Your blades need cambering. A straight edge is very difficult to use on a wide board but will be OK on a board edge.
In fact perhaps practice on a board edge so you can see better what's going on.

 

[Bod]

Is the blade fitted correctly?
The chip breaker should be on the longest side of the blade, and be above the blade when fitted in the body.

Bod

 

[bugbear]

The cuts are short and curly. That's even if I get that far, if not, it just digs in.

Diagnosing remotely is always tricky, but here goes, in decreasing order of likelyhood.

1) It may be as simple as your blade is too far out. Retract it so that the plane doesn't cut and then move it deeper, 1/16" of a turn at a time (i.e. hardly at all). If it --just-- starts to cut at one edge, use the lateral adjuster. All adustments should be about as small as you can manage. This may be the answer.

2) The commonest cause of grabbing is a blunt blade. This will NOT take fine shavings (as in (1)), but will skid over the surface (but not obviously so). When you finally put the blade setting so deep that it is forced to cut, you'll be trying to take a thick shaving with a blunt blade, and this won't go well.

3) Poorly fixed blade. The cutting edge must be a strongly fixed relationship with the sole of the plane; if it isn't, you'll get no cutting as you advance the blade until ... the blade touches. The contact with the wood will then pull the blade down further, so that the constant fine cut is impossible.

4) Concave sole. The blade doesn't touch until it projects enough to clear the hollow. When it does finally touch, either the workpiece is "sucked up" onto the sole, or the sole will bend (honest), and in both cases the effect is that the cut goes from nothing to jammed.

5) Concave bench or workpiece - almost the same mechanics and result as (4). Thick workpieces don't care about the benchtop, and also don't flex, so a cheap 2x4 makes a good trial piece, avoiding (or at least deferring) some of these issues.

Cures:

(1) make finer adjustments

(2) sharpen the blade!

(3) Ensure frog is tight to the sole, cap-iron is tight to the blade, and lever cap is tight. But don't over do it!

(4) Flatten the sole

(5) Flatten the bench

BugBear

 

[condeesteso]

re point 3 above, I would definitely be looking at the frog by now. Take it out, clean both mating surfaces (sometimes old paint, dry crud etc) and ensure it beds rock solid. I also set it so the face is absolutely flush with the sole face (back of mouth on body) so the iron gets max support right down to the edge. Then do as Jacob says and put a v slight camber on. You must be very close to a good 'un!

 

[Stimpi]

One of the clearest and concise piece of advise I have read for some time well done Bugbear. That must put the tin hat onto this topic, can see reference made to other queries in the future.

 

[Hand Plane]

Send me a pm with your phone number and I'll see if I can help, I'm in Limekilns.

 

[xy mosian]

Is it just me, or does the blade in the third picture look to be blunt? Light reflected from the edge.
xy

 

[ohms12]

Thanks for all the advice folks! Bugbear, thanks for the detailed response - let me go through it and get back to you.

1)I'll re sharpen the blade without the leather strop this time, just to make sure i'm not making the blade blunt in any way.

2) I'll re flatten the sole and see what I get.

3) I'll try some smaller adjustments

I'll update as I go along.