Can I make all usual structures with just wood from my small woodland?

[stateit]

Think on this:

Neolithic, bronze age, and iron age people would not have survived in terms of creating shelter and making the utensils, materials and tools necessary for life from one acre of scraggy boggy woodland.
They would have roamed much further to gather the necessary materials.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Think on this:

Neolithic, bronze age, and iron age people would not have survived in terms of creating shelter and making the utensils, materials and tools necessary for life from one acre of scraggy boggy woodland.
They would have roamed much further to gather the necessary materials.

That is a very good point. I watched an episode of digging for Britain last night and they uncovered some Bronze Age artifacts and analysis showed the copper content had been mined in Austria/Switzerland. There was even ivory from Africa and amber from the Baltic. It is really surprising how ‘global’ the economy was in in the past. Perhaps that leaf spring from a Toyota isn’t against the rules

 

[Bingy man]

These Bronze Age , cave men etc used what they had at the time of their existence they ate what ever animals roamed the land and caught fish from lakes and rivers . Fast forward to today and just because the available materials, animals and fish , the climate and the environment have changed if these Bronze Age , Iron Age men were still here today they would still use what is available so should anything be against the rules within reason. I’m sure they would of made use of for eg solar energy if they had the means..

 

[Plwm]

I'd start with a simple frame and tarp lashed to suitable trees to give some rudimentary shelter to get you going. Something to keep you, and tools, dry and out of the wind, somewhere to work... Have seen old parachutes used for shelter (do it myself in my own wood) but not sure how waterproof they are?
As stated, winters coming - clearing, processing wood etc takes time. Think how long it'll take, double it and add some more works for me!!
Whereabouts roughly are you in Wales?

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

I'd start with a simple frame and tarp lashed to suitable trees to give some rudimentary shelter to get you going. Something to keep you, and tools, dry and out of the wind, somewhere to work... Have seen old parachutes used for shelter (do it myself in my own wood) but not sure how waterproof they are?
As stated, winters coming - clearing, processing wood etc takes time. Think how long it'll take, double it and add some more works for me!!
Whereabouts roughly are you in Wales?

I can confirm through direct experience that parachute material is waterproof enough to make a dry shelter. Given enough material, you'd have an outer an an inner with a small air gap.

 

[jetsetwilly]

That is a very good point. I watched an episode of digging for Britain last night and they uncovered some Bronze Age artifacts and analysis showed the copper content had been mined in Austria/Switzerland. There was even ivory from Africa and amber from the Baltic. It is really surprising how ‘global’ the economy was in in the past. Perhaps that leaf spring from a Toyota isn’t against the rules

Guessing games are fun. A hand axe and a saw are not mutually exclusive, they are partners. I cut my round wood with a good quality pruning saw as the narrow blade is less prone to binding in the stem, the saw also cuts to size but for shaping and cleaving a well sharpened hatchet is very hard to beat. However, once the roughing out is done, you need a knife.

Maybe he can unearth a suitable stone and put an edge on the side of his chisel? How big is it?

 

[woodlearner9810182]

I based my comment on that you did some coppicing while volunteering. Not knowing the level of instruction you received.
Was this a one day course ?

No, it was ongoing. There was no official training but there were a couple of professional coppicers that just used to hang out on sight and come by quite often. The organisers of the volunteers were good friends with them, and also related in one case, so they would have passed information to them but also when were there they would say dos and don'ts if they were just around on that day and I was doing some. So just an informal basis but over 1-2 years.

 

[woodlearner9810182]

Ok, last couple of days I had a bigger priority and that was access.

There was nothing to start but a hole in the hedge and greeted with soggy muddy rushes and grass as soon as I stepped foot on there.

I have now cleared with the shovel and ordered in gravel which I have put in and am now able to park within the perimeter. This feels much nicer now and nice today to not be totally caked in mud just from getting in and out the van.

Since I bought the gravel, which indeed came from elsewhere since I would not be able to use anything to hand for that amount of material, it got me thinking about sourcing wood.

I have come around to the idea now of buying roundwood from elsewhere and getting it brought in. Reason being is I chopped down just a little tree yesterday, probably 2 inch wide then I suddenly thought that if I keep chopping what little I have here it will diminish the nice privacy screen they are providing.

So I am open to that now.

It was never a hard and fast rule that I must do everything like neolithic man from what I have here. It was more that I want to explore the feasibility of it if it is impractical then I will look at other options, which I am now doing. So it was just thinking of the most simple and basic and working up from there.

The other extreme, which my mum has kept telling me to do is just buy a pre built shed to store stuff right away. I don't want to do that now either since from my research I think I can easily make a simple shelter from suggestions here and this way I can make what I want how I want it plus the satisfaction of making it myself.

Lean-tos style it seems would be easy. So my compromise I think is buy some round wood and experiment away with making stuff with that. Is it reasonably priced for a good bit to practice on? I know it is less than more processed wood but I haven't bought that either so don't have a reference.

Leafing through the SAS guide I saw a good plan for making simple walls by putting two sticks, or rather four, two at each end, into the ground next to each other with a gap, optionally lashing at the top, and just dropping sticks into this gap to from a wall. Another optional addition is to have another gap between two sets of dropped sticks and pile earth or whatnot in between.

That looks simple and effective.

 

[woodlearner9810182]

Guessing games are fun. A hand axe and a saw are not mutually exclusive, they are partners. I cut my round wood with a good quality pruning saw as the narrow blade is less prone to binding in the stem, the saw also cuts to size but for shaping and cleaving a well sharpened hatchet is very hard to beat. However, once the roughing out is done, you need a knife.

Some more information on the trees today as I had a chance to go look.

Really pretty sparse down there and quite a lot rotten and/or fallen.

For what they look like they have only a couple of 'branches' (if that is accurate here) coming out from the base at the ground and they jut straight up with very few other branches or foliage until they are at the top. They are much larger than previously estimated at I would say around 40-50 feet high. Just a couple of those would probably make a whole shelter.

The leaves are round and have that fishbone pattern on the underside.

I was today trying out the simple method I read in the SAS book of a couple of uprights and others chucked in the void. I didn't have anywhere near the straight uniform poles like the pictures so I just threw in whatever was to hand. What my attempt looks like resembles more of a dead hedge.

Regardless I was pretty pleased as it looks like something. The irregular geometry of the branches put in had the advantage of adding support for weaving more irregular and small pieces in as each twig and branch helps support the other. Looks wattlish without the neat weaving. I think with grass or sods of mud or the like this can be shored up to provide a decent windbreak.

The way I stacked them is the same design as this image posted by earlier reply:

I did not have the luxury of straight logs to place in between though.

 

[Cabinetman]

Just say that that white stuff and rot is very bad for your lungs, definitely don’t use it in your shelter!

 

[bourbon]

Don't rely too much on your SASbook. I presume the one written by Loft Wiseman. I have the same. Vey good book, BUT it's designed for EMERGENCY situations. It doesn't matter if you decimate your landscape as survival is the priority. Your needs are totally different

 

[woodlearner9810182]

Just say that that white stuff and rot is very bad for your lungs, definitely don’t use it in your shelter!

Oh didn't think of that but as this one would be an open style, with 3 walls, if you can call them walls, probably just using it for a cooking shelter, I guess that wouldn't be an issue due to the large amount of air flowing through still.

 

[woodlearner9810182]

Don't rely too much on your SASbook. I presume the one written by Loft Wiseman. I have the same. Vey good book, BUT it's designed for EMEREGENCY situations. It doesn't matter if you decimate your landscape as survival is the priority. Your needs are totally different

Yea I get that, with suggestions like burning tyres for heat. Just use common sense with what parts to use. Just useful as a guide. Not taking it as gospel for everything.

I don't think you can go far wrong with the shelter advice as that is going to be the same whatever, at least the one I discussed already. Making ones out of bamboo of course are moot in the UK.

 

[bourbon]

No use chopping all your trees down to make a shelter, If you don't have enough wood left over to make a fire with

 

[Qwercus]

Oops. it is a bit long, I do tend to waffle but here it is.

I have a small woodland of close to 1 acre and a couple more of open land.

I came onto the land with just a couple of tools including a chisel and hammer.

Of course I will intend to grow and fill out the arsenal a bit but I am interested most in the simplest ways of creating as possible, going back to time honored traditions - specifically to the uk if applicable. With that in mind I am thinking of what tools I could also make from the wood with just what I have already, just bootstrapping from the environment.

I will resort to sourcing things from the local hardware yard only as a last resort and would like to exhaust the self sustainable ideas first.

For the moment I would like to make a workshop with just a basic worktop and frame for shelter. I would either use a tarp to cover or sod and other stuff gathered from the ground to make a roof.

I know you will want to know what type of wood is in the woodland but to be honest I haven't got a clue! I also don't have a camera handy right now to take any images of the wood for you to get a better idea.

I know it is generally considered a 'nono' to work on green wood but that is mostly for longevity concerns isn't it? If I go into accepting the structures may not last for long then can I just continue on regardless and replace as they might get dilapidated?

All I can say is the general thickness and size of the trees which are about thigh thickness and maybe 20-30ft high. If you could offer me things to look for on the trees to be able to come back to you to help identify I could do that.

I would also like to be able to do everything with just the chisel and hammer as well as tools I could make from those, and perhaps saws once I get them but won't have them for a while. My mother should be coming with other tools when she comes to visit and there are a lot of old tools there. I can sharpen them myself can't I?

Better to recycle old tools, which I think had better build quality than today's stuff? They are tools handed down from my grandfather so probably around 1950s. My family are great collectors so loads of stuff I could put to use which had just been sitting around in the garage but they are definitely going to be blunt and require some tlc.

Besides the lack of tools I would be interested in doing joinery rather than using screws just to keep everything as self sustainable as possible with materials I have on the land.

So is that feasible? I don't care if it might take longer this way it is about the satisfaction of doing things in a self-sufficient manner. For practical reasons though it will be important to get the workshop up within a reasonable time to be able to use it to make other stuff!

I had a quick look and mortise and tenon joints look doable?

I can see myself being able to make a frame for a shelter like that but to make a flat or kind of flat worktop how would I do that? Could I just manually chisel away on the trunks until I got them pretty flat place them side by side?

The Cruck Cottage/Hovel was the basic living accommodation for the Peasantry and dates back to Saxon times.
Two long and curved logs were split down the middle and opened out to form A frames, these were the Crucks and formed the gable ends of the building. A straight pole between them made the ridge and the classic tent shape. Eaves were raised from the Crucks to give a boxier outline and the whole structure infilled with Wattle & Daub. The roof could be shingled or thatched with whatever material was locally available.
A few of these buildings still survive where the Crucks are clearly visible at the gable ends, of course the infill has been replaced with brick and the roof with slate or tile.
Like all vernacular building it was a case of using whatever was nearby and available.

 

[woodlearner9810182]

I have been advised that rather than trying to unbog my boggy land, rather work with it and plant things that like the existing landscape.

Willow has been suggested and sounds a great pick due to it liking the bogginess and being quick growing. Big drawback though when I looked just now is the huge prices!!! £35 for one tree! Would only be buying a couple of them!

I am liking the idea of just making the space more for ornamental and/or conservation purposes now rather than growing vegetables which I don't eat that much anyway. Still space for small vege garden as well but since most is boggy I am thinking work with it rather than against it now.

Just had a quick read and lots of other nice looking ornamental plants which enjoy the wetness.

 

[--Tom--]

Willow will root from branches pushed into the ground if you can find a tree nearby

 

[woodlearner9810182]

Willow will root from branches pushed into the ground if you can find a tree nearby

My mum has one in here garden so can take some cuttings!

There is actually a small pile from earlier in the year but how long until they would not root any more? Do they have to be recent cuttings?

 

[bourbon]

The sooner you put them in the ground after they have been cut, the better

 

[Qwercus]

My mum has one in here garden so can take some cuttings!

There is actually a small pile from earlier in the year but how long until they would not root any more? Do they have to be recent cuttings?

Willow draws a lot of moisture from the ground and will dry out a boggy area - at least in the summer months.