Camvac air handling

[Berkshire Wood]

I am looking at purchasing a Camvac twin motor for extraction with only one item of machinery item at a time (model CGV336-4). It is a serious hobby low volume requirement, this unit will be fine for other kit I have or intend to buy. I have not yet purchase my planer thicknesses - looking at Axminster AW2260s or very similar. The literature states it requires 1,500 m³/hr, similar models show the same. No requirement is shown for the Record Power PT of similar size.

The CamVac handles 108 litres/second for two motors and three 162 litres per second.

Unless I have lost the plot, this equates to 388.8 m³/hr for 2 motors and 583.2m³/hr for 3 motors. Real world experience would be much appreciated.

I know PT’s kick out a lot when in use but it appears I’m not making a realistic comparison comparison!

Is any running a AW2260s (or similar) with a two motor CamVac? I’d also value real world experience of this setup. The PT will be next to the CamVac on a direct 100mm short hose.

 

[fleyh]

The literature states it requires 1,500 m³/hr, similar models show the same.

That value is likely for HVLP systems (High Volume Low Pressure).
Camvac is HPLV (High Pressure Low Volume). I can't imagine a three-motor Camvac not being able to handle any workshop machine, provided it uses the appropriate hose size.

A better question is: is your workshop wired for the required wattage to run both the three-motor Camvac and the PT at the same time?

A two-motor Camvac works fine for a bench-top thicknesser.
A combination machine like the AW2260S may have certain compromises to make it a two-in-one. Airflow is one such compromise. A two-motor Camvac will certainly remove a large portion of the chips, but there is no doubt that the three-motor version or a HVLP machine will work better in this instance.

 

[Sideways]

A PT needs air volume to move the chips.
The design of their body and dust hoods doesn't create any sort of seal the way a vacuum cleaner (camvac) would see it when you restrict the hose.
What does this mean ? As far as the motors in the camvac are concerned, they are sucking on a wide open hose with no resistance to overcome.
So let me put numbers on this.
I happen to have a large vacuum cleaner motor designed for central vacuum cleaners and carpet cleaning machines. It's a lot bigger, more powerful and much pricier than camvac motors so I guarantee it makes more peak suction and at least similar peak airflow to them. I have the spec table for this that shows airflow, pressure and power for this across a range of hoses from quarter inch to wide open. Max airflow wide open, no hose, is 183 m3/hr.
So 3 of those would be 550m3/hr. Close enough. Let's believe the 3 motor Camvac spec of 580m3/hr maximum.
That is still a long way short of the 1500m3/hr recommended for your proper planer.

So even a three motor Camvac type machine isn't really good enough.
BUT
High suction machines do have one advantage. They don't lose much performance when you hook them up via a badly designed and undersize duct, or let the filters get dirty. These common mistakes can cripple the performance of a high volume extractor, so I'm inclined to believe that a 3 motor camvac isn't such a bad choice in the real world, even though it falls a fair way short of ideal.
2 motor on a 10x8 PT ? Joke !
3 motor as a versatile small workshop extractor ? Maybe a good compromise.

Lastly, why does airflow matter ?
Put any half decent cut on a 6"+ board and the chips absolutely fly out.
Not so much when you plane but very much when you thickness, non stop with power feed, and where the chips want to fall back on the board due to gravity - if you don't have the airflow to sweep them up and out, the outfeed roller will mash them down into the newly planed surface of the board and make your scraping / finish planing / sanding that much harder.

 

[Berkshire Wood]

That value is likely for HVLP systems (High Volume Low Pressure).
Camvac is HPLV (High Pressure Low Volume). I can't imagine a three-motor Camvac not being able to handle any workshop machine, provided it uses the appropriate hose size.

A better question is: is your workshop wired for the required wattage to run both the three-motor Camvac and the PT at the same time?

A two-motor Camvac works fine for a bench-top thicknesser.
A combination machine like the AW2260S may have certain compromises to make it a two-in-one. Airflow is one such compromise. A two-motor Camvac will certainly remove a large portion of the chips, but there is no doubt that the three-motor version or a HVLP machine will work better in this instance.

Thank you. I am coming up to speed with the domestic options for workshops. Extraction was something I never needed to consider specifications of when in 6th form or accessing a friends machine shop with light industrial kit. Vast majority of PT work is well below machine capabilities.

The garage is attached to a large house with several spare circuits, I have reserved three circuits for the kit plus existing plug sockets. As you note, extraction will be on a circuit independent of active kit.

 

[Berkshire Wood]

A PT needs air volume to move the chips.
The design of their body and dust hoods doesn't create any sort of seal the way a vacuum cleaner (camvac) would see it when you restrict the hose.
What does this mean ? As far as the motors in the camvac are concerned, they are sucking on a wide open hose with no resistance to overcome.
So let me put numbers on this.
I happen to have a large vacuum cleaner motor designed for central vacuum cleaners and carpet cleaning machines. It's a lot bigger, more powerful and much pricier than camvac motors so I guarantee it makes more peak suction and at least similar peak airflow to them. I have the spec table for this that shows airflow, pressure and power for this across a range of hoses from quarter inch to wide open. Max airflow wide open, no hose, is 183 m3/hr.
So 3 of those would be 550m3/hr. Close enough. Let's believe the 3 motor Camvac spec of 580m3/hr maximum.
That is still a long way short of the 1500m3/hr recommended for your proper planer.

So even a three motor Camvac type machine isn't really good enough.
BUT
High suction machines do have one advantage. They don't lose much performance when you hook them up via a badly designed and undersize duct, or let the filters get dirty. These common mistakes can cripple the performance of a high volume extractor, so I'm inclined to believe that a 3 motor camvac isn't such a bad choice in the real world, even though it falls a fair way short of ideal.
2 motor on a 10x8 PT ? Joke !
3 motor as a versatile small workshop extractor ? Maybe a good compromise.

Lastly, why does airflow matter ?
Put any half decent cut on a 6"+ board and the chips absolutely fly out.
Not so much when you plane but very much when you thickness, non stop with power feed, and where the chips want to fall back on the board due to gravity - if you don't have the airflow to sweep them up and out, the outfeed roller will mash them down into the newly planed surface of the board and make your scraping / finish planing / sanding that much harder.

Thank you. The sucking thin air was my concern for the PT and for the very reasons you describe when working with expensive hardwoods!
The existing Herald lathe is the other item of kit that concerns me. If I go the CamVac (or alternative) route, what do I use to present the end of the hose (I will make a stand) but the hose attachment is the concern.
The rest of the kit is relatively simple as it’s low volume dust. I’ll sort the ducting when I have completed workshop and have finalised layout.

 

[Sideways]

Dust collection from a wood lathe is never terribly efficient. It can't be.
Buy or turn a "bell" for the end of the suction hose. Like the bell or horn end of a trumpet.
Make it twice the diameter of the suction hose and I would use 63mm or 100mm hose.
Then, in use, that bell needs to be positioned very close to where the dust is made. The effective reach of the suction is only the same as the diameter of the bell. So very close ! You'll need some sort of stand, swivel arm or clamp to hold it and allow the position to be changed.
These aren't much use for chips but they do help when you are sanding on the lathe.

Bear the extraction in mind when you work on the layout.
Camvac won't care.
If you choose a high volume extractor, you need a 6" main pipe and minimum, gentle bends. You can't get more than 600 to 700m3/hr at best, through a 100mm pipe so if you pipe in 100mm you're stuffed from the get go and would have been better buying the camvac.

Many threads here on dust extraction. Use search and esp. for post by @Inspector.

 

[Sachakins]

I use a twin motor camvac with cyclone for various machines including a 10" lumberjack PT254 planer thicknesses. Use with 2m 100m flexi pipe and copes well.
It's mounted direct to cyclone,with a bigger bin for collection under it.

 

[Berkshire Wood]

Dust collection from a wood lathe is never terribly efficient. It can't be.
Buy or turn a "bell" for the end of the suction hose. Like the bell or horn end of a trumpet.
Make it twice the diameter of the suction hose and I would use 63mm or 100mm hose.
Then, in use, that bell needs to be positioned very close to where the dust is made. The effective reach of the suction is only the same as the diameter of the bell. So very close ! You'll need some sort of stand, swivel arm or clamp to hold it and allow the position to be changed.
These aren't much use for chips but they do help when you are sanding on the lathe.

Bear the extraction in mind when you work on the layout.
Camvac won't care.
If you choose a high volume extractor, you need a 6" main pipe and minimum, gentle bends. You can't get more than 600 to 700m3/hr at best, through a 100mm pipe so if you pipe in 100mm you're stuffed from the get go and would have been better buying the camvac.

Many threads here on dust extraction. Use search and esp. for post by @Inspector.

Again, thank you. I have searched and read some excellent articles. I should have mentioned this. I was surprised at the numbers and wanted at the very least to sense check these.

 

[Berkshire Wood]

I use a twin motor camvac with cyclone for various machines including a 10" lumberjack PT254 planer thicknesses. Use with 2m 100m flexi pipe and copes well.
It's mounted direct to cyclone,with a bigger bin for collection under it.

View attachment 197121

I had spotted this (and similar) in reading threads. I was going to purchase the main unit and then examine extending the capacity - if this became an issue. Thank you for the post.